Vaporflys 4% and Next% are more placebo than not

Have you run/raced in the shoes?

Hey there try getting out of your mothers basement and see the world, is that what you did? Did you try getting out of your mothers basement and see the world? What happened?

tell us more oh seasoned world traveller wrote:

Hey there try getting out of your mothers basement and see the world, is that what you did? Did you try getting out of your mothers basement and see the world? What happened?

Um no I took it from a post by someone else yesterday in another thread because I thought it was a funny comment.

Why, has it struck a nerve?

I love it when old washed up 60 + y/o former runners whine about the unfair advantage the VF shoes give as if they’d ever even tried them on much less run in them. How much you wanna bet that guy interviewed pre-marathon trials was being paid by another shoe company? What a whiny little crumb stain.

flyingfacefk wrote:

I love it when old washed up 60 + y/o former runners whine about the unfair advantage the VF shoes give as if they’d ever even tried them on much less run in them. How much you wanna bet that guy interviewed pre-marathon trials was being paid by another shoe company? What a whiny little crumb stain.

I'm 18 bro and I don't think anyone I have raced against had an advantage over me wearing them

dOpEd sHoEs wrote:

flyingfacefk wrote:

I love it when old washed up 60 + y/o former runners whine about the unfair advantage the VF shoes give as if they’d ever even tried them on much less run in them. How much you wanna bet that guy interviewed pre-marathon trials was being paid by another shoe company? What a whiny little crumb stain.

I'm 18 bro and I don't think anyone I have raced against had an advantage over me wearing them

Do you look like a 60 year old man and were you interviewed pre Olympic marathon trials????

All placebo. They are the best shoe aside from other shoes that use that foam. But the idea that this plate magically makes you fly forward and run fast is complete junk.

I've worn the 4% Next% and alphsfly shoes, previously wore the streaks before this series came out. If there is a difference, it's that the vaporfly series is more forgiving because of the extra cushion compared to the streaks. The new Adidas shoes the past couple years have the same sort of foam, and are also great. If you looked at my races since 2017 when the vaporfly first came out to public, you couldn't tell which ones were in vaporfly type shoes and which were streaks.

You may be right. People can be convinced some design or added tech feature will enhance their performance and it psychologically may boost them to it.

Try my helium-injected, or titanium-spring, or Perigrine Hawk lined ShoeFlies!

They're gonna lift you to new heights and speeds! See? Told ya!

You are still you with all your given and not given talent and skills.

This is a surprising thread, given how many studies have shown the distinct mechanical advantage they give.

dOpEd sHoEs wrote:

Sure they might make your legs feel better but do they really help all that much? I do not think so. It is more a placebo than anything. Discus.

+1

WRONG in so many ways.

Rupp could have worn these and still won.

https://ezcareclothing.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/WMTV1.jpg

Those are nice.

Scientific studies.

Race times.

The benefit is small, nearly imperceptible. However, 1% of 2 hours is 1.2 minutes.

A spring does not need to be in the shape of a coil to work as a spring.

And the earth is flat!

But you're wrong, though. All of you. wrote:

This is a surprising thread, given how many studies have shown the distinct mechanical advantage they give.

seconded, why is this still a debate?

dOpEd sHoEs wrote:

Sure they might make your legs feel better but do they really help all that much? I do not think so. It is more a placebo than anything. Discus.

When the 4% shoe came out I was in this camp. I believed the effect was more mental than physical - which actually is irrelevant because many would argue (myself included) that the most important performance enhancer in sports is motivation/inspiration/belief anyway. So in this respect the shoe works superbly.

But at some point physical evidence - more so on a qualitative level begins to become overwhelming and it's not on a pure "step by step" basis during the act of running which of course is very hard for people to give accurate feedback on.

The biggest advantage to efficiency is the ability to function at an optimal level longer - even super efficient engines will eventually break down and fail - they just take much longer to do so than an inefficient one. Knowing that the 4,NXT% shoes aren't magical energy "generators" - they are simply 4-5% more efficient at conserving energy falls in line with the reality that at approximately 35km in to marathons, athletes wearing the more efficient Vaporfly shoes were simply less fatigued than athletes not wearing the shoes and were able to "run away" from their contemporaries (either less fatigued enough to increase speed or not drop speed at the least). This feedback was oddly universal - especially at an elite level. I've heard a coach of many elite marathon runners make exactly this point and reference 35km specifically. This simply can not be a mental thing at this point.

Likewise recovery from races. What I have been told (having never run a marathon in Nike and then someone else to be able to compare this personally) Nike athletes wearing the 4,NXT %'s appear less fatigued post race (especially in the days following) which would again pertain to the idea their bodies were able to run more efficiently and experience less fatigue. Was a 4-5% increase in efficiency enough for this to happen - the sheer volume of evidence would suggest yes it can't simply be mental placebo.

These shoes are a perfect combination of mental and physical enhancement for athletes. Both are at play. But there is too much evidence that also matches up with scientific and bio-mechanical principals evident in these shoes for it to just be magical snake oil that does nothing except improve a state of mind.

They work - physically and mentally. I would also guess the net outcome is more than just a 4% improvement.

The shoes can explain the fast men’s times. Why didn’t the women run fast?

All you need to do is run one serious effort marathon in them after having run others in regular racing flats. The difference in how your legs feel in the last 10k is undeniable. I ran one in the 4% before all of the evidence was in, and knew with certainty that they made a significant difference.