What is CHSAA (Colorado) doing about the private school recruiting game?

Colorado is tricky because we have a great deal of school choice. In many places parents can send kids to whatever school has space. So if you live in D11 but want to go to a D49 school that is allowed as long as there is space.

So don't think for a second that public schools are not doing it too.

I would say the only way CHSAA knows is when someone reports it. A tricky part is what constitutes "recruiting". I cannot find a definition in the CHSAA by laws. I know recruiting is sort of like porn--I cannot define it but I know it when I see it.

Thanks for the insight. Was here ever an established Parochial School league in our state? I know many states divide up public/private school leagues.

I too, would agree that select districts with middle/upper income families can enroll in any public school in the district, or even neighboring district. For a number of reasons, traditionally lower income families and towns don't have that same luxury. Transportation for a student becomes an issue with lack of travel resources, etc. While I would fully agree that public schools recruit, but lets take a look at the schools that have 'suspicious activity' going on.... Air Academy, Mountain Vista, Niwot, Fossil Ridge. What do all these schools have in common? Inequality is certainly happening in public schooling as well.

Thanks for the feedback! I know CHSAA is unfortunately turning a blind eye with pressure from the state influences on all levels.

Thanks for the insight. Was here ever an established Parochial School league in our state? I know many states divide up public/private school leagues.

I too, would agree that select districts with middle/upper income families can enroll in any public school in the district, or even neighboring district. For a number of reasons, traditionally lower income families and towns don't have that same luxury. Transportation for a student becomes an issue with lack of travel resources, etc. While I would fully agree that public schools recruit, but lets take a look at the schools that have 'suspicious activity' going on.... Air Academy, Mountain Vista, Niwot, Fossil Ridge. What do all these schools have in common? Inequality is certainly happening in public schooling as well.

Thanks for the feedback! I know CHSAA is unfortunately turning a blind eye with pressure from the state influences on all levels.

There is no way to stop privates from "recruiting". What could they possibly do? These schools are 100% within their rights to compete for students (and athletes).

Now if the public schools decide they don't think the playing field is level, they can seek to exclude privates from state title competitions. That's how it is here in MD (and VA) and I've never thought twice about it having lived most of my life here.

I was actually quite surprised when I found out many states DO allow private schools into state HS tournaments and such. People from those states have similarly told me, on occasion, that it seems totally bizarre (to them) for MD/VA to exclude privates. Its what you're used to/grew up with.

But recruiting is not going anywhere and there is not a thing wrong with it. I'd also say that it's a little overstated. Reality is different than people perception. Sure some schools are effectively sports academies..but this is not that common. Even at well known privates, not all that much money is being thrown at track, lets be honest.

CHSAA instituted stricter transfer standards a couple of years ago. Basically, if you transfer and can't prove it's for a hardship, you have to sit out of varsity competition for one year. Granted, CHSAA has no authority in out of state competitions, so that is why you'll see athletes competing at NXR and NXN who haven't competed in varsity competitions in Colorado all year.

Respectfully, I think we're comparing apples to oranges when we try and parallel the high school systems of east coast schools vs. Colorado. Populations are different, as well as past reasons for attending religious / private schools. It is true that our parent's generation may have attended private schools simple because 'that's what you do,' but that isn't the case anymore in 2020. Are we sending kids to private schools now, with tuition ranging from $14-$20,000 per academic year because 'it's simply what you do,' or are we spending extra money to shelter them from 'other influences?' I would welcome that argument. Religious schools in the state of Colorado are 100% different from history-rich private schools of the east coast. No one goes to Valor because their parents went there.

If we sit here and simply say 'there is no way to stop recruiting,' then we're justifying its prevalence. Holy Family, a 4A school, has runners on its roster ranging from Colorado Springs to Loveland. That's a 119-mile stretch of area to recruit from. They play 4A schools from small towns. If that's 'reality is different from perception,' then someone please help me figure this equation out.

My friend, I encourage you to watch the Colorado state track meet this year as kids see another team score 150 points, while breaking multiple long standing records. I encourage you to watch a Valor Christian football team beat another team by 70 points, then walk across the field and cherry pick the losing team's top two kids. I encourage you to attend a playoff basketball game and watch Holy Family beat a low income team by 40 points.

This may happen with one or two powerhouse private schools on the east coast, but it sure as heck isn't the norm. Show me some data, otherwise you're just another person with an opinion as they say.

CHSAA rules allow a school to field a team that can win a state championship with a majority of points being scored by students who don't attend that school. I'm aware of at least two state championships in the last 20 to 30 years that have been won this way.

Benji25, I have a strong feeling you’ve opened this conversation up, unfortunately, to a bunch of private coaches and parents of entitled kids. You’ve made great points, but his is like listening to a bunch of Yankee fans respond. “If our salary cap is ten times yours, and we win, it’s still a win. Period.” And the cycle of inequality goes on. But wait, CHSAA guidelines say it’s ok....

Funny how no responses have attempted to answer any of your original tough questions with integrity.

Everybody recruits. I know of public schools who put a lot of pressure and shame on lower grade student athletes if they hear they might be going to a private high school.

It's really very simple. The private schools should have their own separate leagues and should only meet the publics if they both agree.

I've noticed that the publics don't complain if the athlete is going out of state, say, to play hockey in Minnesota. However, if the athlete stays fairly local and his private team beats the old public school there is much anger. What the publics don't realize is that they do NOT own that student.

Assdfs,

Respectfully, I think we're comparing apples to oranges when we try and parallel the high school systems of east coast schools vs. Colorado.

This possibly is true - Maryland track and field is a small sliver of talent that takes place in Colorado high schools at the present moment. Look at our top teams in the state. At all levels, they are filled with transfers. This trickles all the way down to 2A schools.

Populations are different, as well as past reasons for attending religious / private schools. It is true that our parent's generation may have attended private schools simple because 'that's what you do,' but that isn't the case anymore in 2020. Are we sending kids to private schools now, with tuition ranging from $14-$20,000 per academic year because 'it's simply what you do,' or are we spending extra money to shelter them from 'other influences?' I would welcome that argument. Religious schools in the state of Colorado are 100% different from history-rich private schools of the east coast. No one goes to Valor because their parents went there.

In terms of numbers of kids, on the East Coast, and probably almost everywhere, kids go to Catholic HSs because they went to Catholic elementary schools. Catholic schools are pretty big on sports and make up a large fraction of private HSs. People send their kids to Catholic schools for many reasons. Low quality of alternatives is a huge factor in some areas, not so much in others. What I take away from this statement ("low quality of alternatives") plays right into my initial point of kids getting sent to private schools to be 'sheltered from garbage.' Low quality of alternatives is an entitles person's way of sounding politically correct. I'd put our top public school student athletes over a private, sheltered kid any day. Who would you want next to you on the court? Talk about grit, curiosity, a fight to win.... all of this gets taken away when schools build mega teams through recruiting. True?

If we sit here and simply say 'there is no way to stop recruiting,' then we're justifying its prevalence. Holy Family, a 4A school, has runners on its roster ranging from Colorado Springs to Loveland. That's a 119-mile stretch of area to recruit from. They play 4A schools from small towns. If that's 'reality is different from perception,' then someone please help me figure this equation out. People can go where they want to go. Don't blame HF, try to enforce a segregated private/public system if you want. Are schools such as this, athletic directors and supporting parents in particular, not part of the bigger hole in the system of equality in sports? My initial question is asking if anything is being done by CHSAA, while you're sitting here justifying recruiting. You are 100% right in that people can go where they want. That's called school-of-choice, a concept much different than the muddied waters of recruiting games taking place in Colorado. Does that make it right, or does that once again make it the first step in all things wrong with the current high school sports system? I'd challenge you to reflect on how Maryland and Virginia sports would be impacted in one school had a 120 mile 'recruiting' radius, while the visiting team was made of kids from your local block. Would that be a game you'd like to watch and appreciate?

My friend, I encourage you to watch the Colorado state track meet this year as kids see another team score 150 points, while breaking multiple long standing records. I encourage you to watch a Valor Christian football team beat another team by 70 points, then walk across the field and cherry pick the losing team's top two kids. I encourage you to attend a playoff basketball game and watch Holy Family beat a low income team by 40 points.

This may happen with one or two powerhouse private schools on the east coast, but it sure as heck isn't the norm. Show me some data, otherwise you're just another person with an opinion as they say.

Private schools often dominate, it most certainly IS the norm. Whether they are allowed to dominate state championship competition varies by state and some allow it, some don't. Some handicap privates by adding enrollment multipliers. But track team competition is honestly not that important. I could not name who won the MD state outdoor titles last year and there are 4 divisions anyway. 6 or 7 in VA..again no clue. People remember the individual performances.

"But track team competition is honestly not that important," -This, once again, is the response of a typical entitled fan of the sport. You would never, ever hear that response from a middle-class hard working kid without the luxuries of her/her teammates all being highly recruited D1 athletes. I would contest that a school winning a track and field team title is the single hardest big school championship to obtain in high school athletes. You must have a handful of sprinters, distance, throwers, and jumpers, all perform well at the state level. They ALL have to show up and compete over a three day period. But hey, teamwork and encouragement of lifelong classmates to push new limits isn't that important when you know you're loaded with depth in recruiting, right?

I'd love to keep encouraging good dialogue, but I realize I'm come to the wrong platform for it. Keep enjoying those individual performances buddy. Those are exactly the kinds of skills and traits employers are looking for...

Oar, my guess is that you aren't on the front lines of what is taking place in high school athletics. Am I correct? If no, then no need for further dialogue as I'll take it for ignorance. If you are, then I think you need to take a hard and honest look as to what you're justifying.

You are correct. Public schools don't own students. But, any hardworking student with a sense of integrity, trust, and grit (a kid you'd want on your work team someday) would choose to continue on and excel in sports with his/her lifelong teammates, right? It's called loyalty. I also realize that we are talking about 14-18 year olds, with brains that aren't mature until 25-28. Yes, pressures will happen as they excel, get fast, and more mature physically. You can bet that if I'm a young teen, and an adult with power and authority approaches me regarding possibilities of scholarships and winning, I'm gonna listen. That being said, who begins these influences? Private schools, private coaches, club coaches, and parents that want to shelter their kids. That's called 'the business of high school athletics and academics.' Ask yourself a larger question: Why is the U.S. laughed at in men's soccer from countries around the world? We have more money, more power, a much larger pool filled with private leagues, club coaches, yet our national team didn't qualify for the last World Cup. Ask yourself why, and you'll realize how little of it has to do with skill. We are soft in sports. Talent is there, much as is it in private schools that recruit, but the grit and will to win simply isn't.

Oldnslo,

With a username like that, but a mentality like that, I'm guessing you grew up on the entitled side of the local railroad tracks? If CHSAA rules state it by Word, it must be the right way to do things. Just like NCAA, right? Isn't NCAA the cleanest big business in the country? Oh wait...

oldnslo wrote:

CHSAA rules allow a school to field a team that can win a state championship with a majority of points being scored by students who don't attend that school. I'm aware of at least two state championships in the last 20 to 30 years that have been won this way.

Benji25 and Coruni1,

I probably didn't make my point clear. To further elaborate, I'd like to see some of these loopholes eliminated in order to create a more level playing field for all schools. As it stands now, the schools with more resources are oftentimes better positioned to take advantage of some of the loopholes (I think we both see that). My team likely lost a state championship as a result of some of these loopholes in the rules. Regarding the personal comments about my username or where I may be from - totally unnecessary (and misinformed).

To answer the original question in this thread CHSAA isn’t going to do anything about the recruiting problem. They just changed the transfer rule so that transfers have to sit a whole year but beyond that I don’t see CHSAA making any meaningful changes in the near future.

What do you all think CHSAA can do? It’s not like they have police or investigators to look into recruiting violations. Only a really dumb coach is ever going to get caught recruiting.

I think the mistake you all are making is in the thinking that there has ever been a level playing field in high school athletics, or that there is ever going to be a reasonable way to create one. The first high school I coached at I had multiple kids on the team that the only decent meals they got were the breakfast and lunch provided by the school. I had to start a program to recycle spikes and running shoes just so the kids had something to run in. And then these kids are supposed to compete against the likes of Valor Christian?

We can say a lot about private schools, and no doubt some of it is worth saying. While we're on the topic, though, how many of Niwot's current distance runners actually live within the attendance boundaries of Niwot High School?

Qualitatively, I'm not sure how the Niwot problem is fundamentally different from the Valor, or--if you prefer--Holy Family problem. I don't think this is fundamentally a private school problem. It's more complex than that.

NXN is part of the problem. If you can transfer to Niwot or Valor or Mountain Vista and become part of an NXN-bound team, much of the sting of the Colorado transfer rule is voided. Maybe rattle some cages at Nike before we see more transfers headed to the already-rich programs. They're the ones allowing CHSAA-ineligibles to compete for their (new) schools.

Benji25,

You didn't mention it, but it might also be worth thinking about programs like the Windsor wrestling program. I honestly don't know, but of their 14-man varsity roster, do you suppose they're all from within the Windsor attendance boundaries? Or are people transferring in there to be part of the best wrestling program in the state. If they are transferring in, how far are they coming from?

I've heard a rumor that a recent state champion volleyball team had only one player of their top ten who actually lived inside the school's attendance boundary. It's a public school.

How is that different from what the private schools are doing?

I don't mean to be mean-spirited at all here. I hope my questions are deemed as fair. I've certainly tried to present them that way.

Volleyball is a really great example because it’s so height based. 5’ 9.5” is the 99th percentile for US women. So a girl over 6’ tall is like 1 in several hundred. The chances of having 3-4 girls 6’ 3” or taller such as Chaparral High School (this years 5A state volleyball champs) has on their team is like 1 in a million. It would be like a single high school having 3-4 7’ tall boys on their basketball team.

So you’re right the problem is not just private schools. So what is the answer? It’s certainly not an easy problem to fix. I’ve known several coaches that have walked away from high school sports because of the inequalities.

Actually I think public schools have the advantage in recruiting because none of their kids pay a dime to go there. My guess is almost all of the Valor kids are paying a good chunk of change to be there. With open enrollment kids can go to any public school they please. Plus, let’s not pretend that Valor isn’t training kids up. My kids compete against their track acadaemy kids in grade school, and they are impressive.