There are too many runners in the U.S. Olympic Trials marathon

Plinythetiny wrote:

Just get rid of the B standards. A standard only. Would be more like 70-90 runners most likely. I'd watch that!

I don't mean this as argumentative, I'm just trying to understand this way of thinking. It seems like you're saying you would not watch the Trials with their fields of 260 and 511 but would watch if you had just the 70-90 with the A standard running. Why? Those 70-90 will all be there. They'll nearly all be at the front. How does the presence of an "extra" 170 to 421 runners make you lose interest in watching?

It will be interesting to see how many viewers watch this year.

In 2016, with around 300 qualifiers (same marathon qualifying times but slower half times) there were 1.2 million viewers.

Track trials that year got 3.4 million to 5 million depending on the day.

Unfortunately having trouble finding the numbers for NYC last year.

they need to make the women's standard 5 min faster minimum. and that's if they don't change the men's standard, which they could realistically drop as well.

2:45, especially with spring shoes, is something any mediocre college athlete can do if they train for 6 months.

2:18 is a solid sub-elite time, although somewhat devalued when everyone gets 60-150 secs time off from spring shoes

Good post (no sarcasm).

I ran a Marathon and got smoked by a ton of women--it was all good and I had no issue with it. Plus they were kind and humble afterwards. Many of them were with CRC (Columbus Running Company) and had been running for years and BQed, etc. etc. It really put my training in focus. The men are even faster...!

Questions:

Did she have any shorter distance experience? Did she run track or XC in HS or college?

To run 2:43 out of the box on 45 mpw--most here would laugh at 45 mpw for half training, let along full training--that's IMPRESSIVE.

I was able to run 50-55 mpw for my first 'thon and felt I could have done a little more. But I was nowhere near 2:43.

To the above post--I forgot and re-read--she ran at a D3 school so she had some talent. I was an idiot for not reading it through fully the first time :)

HRE wrote:

Plinythetiny wrote:

Just get rid of the B standards. A standard only. Would be more like 70-90 runners most likely. I'd watch that!

I don't mean this as argumentative, I'm just trying to understand this way of thinking. It seems like you're saying you would not watch the Trials with their fields of 260 and 511 but would watch if you had just the 70-90 with the A standard running. Why? Those 70-90 will all be there. They'll nearly all be at the front. How does the presence of an "extra" 170 to 421 runners make you lose interest in watching?

I'd still watch if there were only 70-90, didn't say I wouldn't watch with 511, but honestly don't care to watch slower runners- I don't think they are qualified to be there.

Thanks for answering. I think I get what you're saying.

One of the women runners, Kaitlin Goodman, fell at 0.5 miles and was trampled by the stampede. Here's what she said on Instagram: "it was so crowded because the pace was slow, too many people, too many potholes in the road. I went down, hard, with a scream; it was terrifying. I got trampled, just like Simba in the Lion King when he’s caught in the wildebeest stampede in the gorge - that’s the only way to describe it." https://www.instagram.com/p/B9K1j7AnO0M/?igshid=cmzsqmguivzu

Sorry for posting the same tweet three times. That was an error. Though the "more is better" crowd might be happy I did so.

I also wanted to call attention to this tweet:

https://twitter.com/laurie9730/status/1233956772982984704

So it wasn't just one runner who fell. It was "several."

Reed Fischer had a similar fate but finished. Now Schrader way out front doesn't look so dumb.

Kaitlin Goodman, the woman who fell and was trampled, is a sub 32 10K runner and a 2:32 marathoner. I feel so bad for her. https://www.runningjoyfully.com/prs

Whoa, you are right:

https://twitter.com/Annie_Rodenfels/status/1233819036477272064

And apparently he wasn't the only man down:

https://twitter.com/Annie_Rodenfels/status/1233820038374793217

Reed Fischer actually went down TWICE during the first 5 miles.

"To be honest, that was about the last way I expected my first marathon to go. After the first fall, I thought about dropping out. Then I fell again, and I knew that I had to finish. ⁣

⁣

I had to finish because I understood the magnitude of this race and the honor I had to toe the line with a chance to become an Olympian. ⁣

⁣

I had to finish because I knew that if I believed in myself just a fraction as much as the people who believe in me do, I could make it. ⁣

⁣

I had to finish because the marathon owed me nothing, despite what I thought when I woke up this morning, and it was a fight worth fighting.

⁣

The result wasn’t what I wanted—throw it out. And of course I’m devastated that today wasn’t my day. But I’m also grateful for the love that was shown to me on the course today by family, friends, and complete strangers. That was the hardest thing I’ve ever done, and all of you helped get me through it.⁣

⁣

To the marathon: you may have kicked my ass today, but I look forward to kicking yours in the future.⁣

⁣

TLDR: 10/10 would NOT recommend falling twice in the first five miles of a marathon.⁣"

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9KyrpdnGsT/

Bad Wigins wrote:

There should not be a trials at all. They should be selected by fastest time on any record-legal course during a set qualifying period of about 1 year.

That ensures that your best will make it without risking losing them to a bad day or freak injury, and it avoids ruining them by putting an unnecessary race into their legs.

If the Ethiopians were smart picking a team, would they make Bekele run a trials? Would the Kenyans make Kipchoge? It's dumb.

Might not always agree with you but on this one I do!

It’s such a specialised event with specialised training - why would you throw in an unnecessary race, and judge someone’s marathon ability on a fixed point in time - leaving more than a bit of it to luck. I can’t see how that selects the best team?

So it looks like that stacking tje field with so much sub elites was a terrible decisions. Some runners tried to compete for places they had no chance to get and crowded the first places, making people fall and getting injured.

The standards should be much higher for an olympic trial race.

This looking more and more like a total FUBAR situation. Reed Fischer, a 1:02:06 half marathoner, fell twice in the first 5 miles. This is an elite runner who had a shot at making the team. There was reportedly at least one other man who fell. Kaitlin Goodman, a 2:32 marathoner, fell and was trampled by the field. She was unable to finish the race and sustained serious injuries. How many other people fell?

This is unacceptable. This is not the Dipsea cross country race or the Pikes Peak Marathon where falls are part of the fun. It is the Olympic Trials.

Who is to blame? Why did this happen? How can we prevent this from happening in the future?

1. Part of the problem in the women's race was apparently the slow pace, which caused the field to bunch up. There is nothing that can be done about this. But there are likely many road races in which there are no falls despite a slow initial pace.

2. Kaitlin Goodman cited potholes in the streets. The next Olympic Trials marathon should be held in a city where the streets are smooth. I realize America's infrastructure is in bad shape but there must be at least a few cities with well-maintained roads.

3. As noted in the beginning of this thread, the fields (especially the women's field) were larger than in the past. The qualifications should be tightened up considerably. It is a safety issue. Even if we don't go as far as Japan does to limit the fields, the organizers should aim for fields of 50-100 rather than 200-500. Ensuring the safety of the runners should take precedence over the aspirations of sub-elite runners who have no chance of making the team.

I've seen comments from both spectators and runners about crowd support yesterday being good, and I certainly was impressed. Of the people we talked to, almost all were there not to see Rupp or Hasay, and certainly not to see the other sub-2:15ers/2:35ers, but to support their friend's daughter or to cheer for the woman they babysat 20 years ago. If you want crowd support, it helps to have more runners.

Separate thought: if the standards are tightened significantly, I wonder if USATF would consider giving automatic OTQ to anyone who finishes in the top 10 (or some other number) of a USATF championship of any distance half marathon or longer. Seems like that would help strengthen the fields at those races.