Kipchoge has never broken 2:04 without the Vaporfly

masacote wrote:

dodge ball wrote:

[quote]kingkimetto wrote:

Kimetto ‘s 2:02 is hands down the best marathon performance ever. No contest.

Nope. Kipchoge’s 1:59:40 is

Fixing my reply to dodge ball. No , Kipchoge’s 1:59:40 was on a prototype and we are talking about his best performance ever WITHOUT any of the Carbon fiber plated shoes being 2:04.

Not to mention that Viena thing was a circus that officially doesn’t count for anything other than Kipchoge’s bank account.

dodge ball wrote:

kingkimetto wrote:

Kimetto ‘s 2:02 is hands down the best marathon performance ever. No contest.

Nope. Kipchoge’s 1:59:40 is the best ever.

1:59:40 EXH

And his Monza 2:00:25 EXH is probably a superior performance anyway.

Nobody but Kimetto has done it in non-plated shoes. Boost foam helped him a tiny bit. Who would have thought that would open the door for raging and triggered Nike to create a monster. That is what it is. For about 2 years leading up to VF introduction, Boost took much of Nike's racing shoes market away. I remember seeing so many Adios near the starting lines of local races. Now, we're in a sea of pink and green. You gotta hand it Nike. They're f-king evil. They will kill the sports for their gain.

I would to see Rhonex to run a marathon but he won't for now. He is better the Bekele or Kipchoge ever was.

FAKE NEWS = Breaking 2

Is it just me, or does it a major bummer that the conversations about great running performances these days are all about doping AND the footwear (and possibly Jim Walmsley...somehow)

Every accomplishment includes an asterisks nowadays*

*see above

Neither have I

Moo Goo wrote:

I would to see Rhonex to run a marathon but he won't for now. He is better the Bekele or Kipchoge ever was.

Absurd statement. Rhonex is young and could get there, but prime Bekele (2003-2009) would wipe the floor with him on the track or in cross country. Same with Kamworor, Cheptegei and down the line. 12:37/26:17. 10 straight world cross titles. Skonked everyone in '08 and '09. No magic shoes or anything.

round and round wrote:

Is it just me, or does it a major bummer that the conversations about great running performances these days are all about doping AND the footwear (and possibly Jim Walmsley...somehow)

Every accomplishment includes an asterisks nowadays*

*see above

* = I Cheated

** = Drug Cheat and Shoe Cheat

wow wow wrote:

round and round wrote:

Is it just me, or does it a major bummer that the conversations about great running performances these days are all about doping AND the footwear (and possibly Jim Walmsley...somehow)

Every accomplishment includes an asterisks nowadays*

*see above

* = I Cheated

** = Drug Cheat and Shoe Cheat

haha! Imagine if Kipchoge's wikipedia page showed this.

Marathon - 2:01:39 WR*

* I cheated

I appreciate the OP's point. After reading Ross Tucker's interesting article minutes ago, I realize what I already had been thinking:

That regardless of how the shoe works for you, it is designed for Kipchoge. The article points out that different people had dissimilar reactions to it. Some had no improvement or a negative one; a lot had some improvement but not all the same amount. The exact guy who was on a treadmill with equipment hooked up to him testing prototypes with every possible combination of technology is going to be one of the better responders to it. Not necessarily the best, as we don't know if someone else with a specific leg length, footstrike, and pronation pattern (and possibly several other characteristics) might randomly respond even better. However, it's certain to aid Eliud especially since it was designed to. Coincidentally, it works for KB, but it may not have. We didn't know until he wore it. Perhaps his mechanics wouldn't have worked with it but would have if it had been designed differently, i.e., specifically for him. And perhaps what KB wore WAS designed for him and not off-the-shelf.

The point is, we know it aids EK and almost certainly more than all of you think. Or perhaps as much as the OP thinks. He was tested comparing it to the old Nikes and various other experimental shoes. It is certain, as Ross points out, that results have been determined by the shoe. All of you were welcome to get on a treadmill with a mask and try everything. Then you'd have YOUR perfect shoe. Some would say, anyway!

I lean toward Tucker's conclusion that results have been rendered meaningless. We just don't know where this guy stands in the overall history of marathoning. He is nowhere near the GOAT at shorter distances, and the guy who is may unseat him soon at the marathon. I guess I'd put him into some theoretical Hall Of Fame but you, know, Wanjiru and Target would be there too. I mean, he's among the best, but to say easily, undisputedly the GOAT marathoner is a little hard to say at this point. To me, anyway.

notroll wrote:

I thought the difference maker was the stack height, not the carbon plate?

I’ve always heard that the laces were the real difference maker.

runderun wrote:

Kipchoge needs to nut up and run London in a pair of Streaks. Let's see what he's really capable of.

FYI: if the VFs behave as lab tests say they do then they are worth 2:24 off a 2:04:00 marathon. That would take the time down to 2:01:36. What's Kipchoges record? 2:01:39. He might still have won every race but i do not believe he breaks 2:03 without the VFs

Correct. Nobody sniffs Kimetto without cheater flies.

Kipslowge wrote:

dodge ball wrote:

Nope. Kipchoge’s 1:59:40 is the best ever.

1:59:40 EXH

And his Monza 2:00:25 EXH is probably a superior performance anyway.

Surely Haile Gebrseelassie's 2:03:59 is the best ever?

Weren't his shoes carbon plated?

talking about kimetto's when he did 2:02