Goucher: I didn't go to Rio because Shalane and Amy wore VFs (which is the same as EPO)

I agree. This was not fair to Goucher. We had a perfectly level field where everyone dopes and avoids getting caught completely ruined by these shoes. It's a shame because she is so dedicated towards training and taking her thyroid medicine, she deserved it more than anyone!

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

in addition to the records... wrote:

One of the greatest gifts the Vaporflys gave us.

+1

you were fat and happy

on that Nike tit

now its dry

get over it

2020 and Goucher still crying :(

I guess, You have to stay relevant somehow.

waaaaaaaaah wrote:

Could she be any more of a sore loser?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/01/21/on-par-with-doping-the-first-person-to-miss-the-olympics-for-wearing-the-wrong-shoes/#2c5eab064a08

In the wise words of David Goggins..

"The world isn't fair, but guess what...it's fair enough"

lazy OP DEVASTATED wrote:

That is not what Goucher said. OP is intellectually dishonest because the truth isn't as easy to attack:

"There is no way to know that the shoes kept me out of the Olympics, but I do feel like it wasn’t a level playing field- I mean the research proves that. "

That quote is just a polite way of saying what the OP said lol besides the EPO analogy. She’s a sore loser for sure.

1.) Desi wasn’t wearing vaporflys.

2.) This was the first version of the Vaporfly so we don’t even know if it had the same boost as the eventual 4%’s did and the research done later on was on 4%’s and next% not the very first prototype version.

3.) And finally, the most important point, Kara knows damn well she would have been wearing them too if she was still with Nike. She is full of it if she tries to claim she would have turned down running in those.

Kara’s cry baby, victim narrative is getting awfully boring. She had an amazing career under Salad Bar and then she leaves and says he was dirty but that she was clean. Then she ends her Nike career and moves to a low-quality feminism brand and starts throwing the company that supported her for a decade under the bus. She isn’t a victim. She isn’t a voice for the people. She is trying to stay relevant in track and field because she can’t be a coach and she has no other redeeming factors that bring value to our sport. Sad. Go home Kara.

Are people REALLY still pretending the shoes don't help elites???

1) Flanagan is QUOTED from her Instagram that they did (before they were commonly available) !

2) ~750 runners have qualified for the OTM !

3) Top marathon times are insane !!

4) Harvard won the Northeast Cross Country Regionals ! ! !

5) Maybe Desi was the best that day but finished 2nd due to the shoes ?

Sheesh

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

in addition to the records... wrote:

One of the greatest gifts the Vaporflys gave us.

+1

+10000

No, the intellectually dishonest title is not merely a less polite version of what Kara said. It's an outright fabrication. She literally says that she doesn't know if she would have made the team with the shoe.

Dazed&Confused II wrote:

Are people REALLY still pretending the shoes don't help elites???

1) Flanagan is QUOTED from her Instagram that they did (before they were commonly available) !

2) ~750 runners have qualified for the OTM !

3) Top marathon times are insane !!

4) Harvard won the Northeast Cross Country Regionals ! ! !

5) Maybe Desi was the best that day but finished 2nd due to the shoes ?

Sheesh

No I’m a huge believer that the shoes make a difference, what I said was the first version (they they wore at the trials) most likely was not as big as an advantage as the final product. Go look back at the pictures the first version of zoom X foam looks quite a bit different. Doesn’t have those trademark creases in it and looks a lot less bouncy.

lazy OP DEVASTATED wrote:

Shunpo wrote:

[quote]lazy OP DEVASTATED wrote:

That is not what Goucher said. OP is intellectually dishonest because the truth isn't as easy to attack:

"There is no way to know that the shoes kept me out of the Olympics, but I do feel like it wasn’t a level playing field- I mean the research proves that. "

No, the intellectually dishonest title is not merely a less polite version of what Kara said. It's an outright fabrication. She literally says that she doesn't know if she would have made the team with the shoe.

Oh please buddy. Gimme a break, anyone with half a brain knows EXACTLY what she's insinuating, very strongly I might add. Just because someone uses the word "allegedly" or "maybe" doesn't make their insinuations any less disingenuous, and Kara is as disingenuous as it gets, period. Go home Kara, you're (Still) drunk.

Rupp, Kipchoge, Flanagan, etc were all guilty of mechanical doping. I've been arguing it for months on our podcast.

woodward bernstein wrote:

The reporter should have asked Goucher if she would have worn the shoes if she were still with Nike in 2016.

Now, that's a very good point. I think most athletes would probably wear them without thinking too much about it. But in hindsight, it's clear the shoes were illegal and I think the 2016 Olympic marathon results should be invalidated.

Speaking of invalidation, I've had to ban a poster or two on this thread. I don't understand the vitriol for Goucher. But if you want to criticize her, that's fine. But bringing up something not related to the topic at hand - like her looks - isn't allowed on this thread or any thread.

People who have a legitimate argument don't have to resort to misquoting someone.

imarunr wrote:

The fact that Desi finished second, wearing standard Brooks racing flats, and beating Shalane, who was wearing the Nike prototypes, kind of discredits Kara’s assertions. I don’t believe that Brooks had started development of their VaporFly-type shoe yet, at the time of the 2016 Trials. So Desi was at the same “disadvantage” that Kara was, yet kicked Kara’s butt and made the team.

So while Nike’s shoes may have given their runners an advantage, that wasn’t the sole reason Kara didn’t make the team that year.

Your reasoning is terrible. You are saying, basically, that since somebody not wearing the Vaporflys beat Shalane, it's impossible that Shalane was getting any unfair advantage from the shoes.

That would be like the bronze medalist in an event getting a positive for EPO, and denying it by saying they obviously didn't get any benefit from any drugs, since the person in front of them didn't test positive for EPO and still beat them.

Let's remember, Kara didn't have to WIN the trials to make the Olympic team, and as far as I know she hasn't claimed to have been the best runner that day. She just had to make the top 3, and she was 4th in a race in which 2 of those ahead of her had shoes that possibly provided an unfair advantage. Or you could say, she finished 1:05 behind one runner with the Nikes, and 2:04 behind the other, and the shoes are commonly thought to give a couple of minutes +/- advantage. Whatever one's personal feelings towards Kara, you can't deny the basic plausiblity of the point she makes.

The point is Kara referring to Nike creating an "non level playing field " . Her biggest complaint should be , she made a mistake accepting money from Sketchers wearing a shoe that would give you issues walking around a mall. Not Nikes fault , it was her deciding to trust Sketchers with a OT event.

rojo wrote:

I don't understand the vitriol for Goucher.

She is off-putting because she is always complaining about things and doing so with lots of exaggeration and drama.

Back to the subject matter:

The argument she missed the Olympics because of the shoes is flawed. The Olympic Trials are not a time trial but a championship race. Even if these early VFs conveyed an advantage, we don't know without them how a championship race would have played out. Ie, the top three may have finished even faster if Goucher was threatening them.

As dumb as you sound, your 'life' must suck. Oh well.

You also sound pretty dumb. Shalane was dead on arrival. If this was a 27 mile race Kara would have caught her.

I'll give you some context. I've been completely out of shape from injury / torn hamstring and ran a 1:18 half on the way to a 2:59 finish. There should have been no way I could have run close to my A goal (2:35) for the first half if not for the vaporfly. These magic shoes can get you pretty far.

Apparently now hubby is upset that his darling wife is not as adoring to others as she is to him. It's comical how he describes her, you would think she is Mother Teresa or something.

https://twitter.com/Adam_Goucher/status/1220011668106702849?s=20