What income is considered upper class?

Not upper class wrote:

Gyydjrknf

If you are making 500k+ a year and can't afford a desperately needed kitchen remodel or saving for your kids' college education then yoi desperately need a financial planner. And if you actually consider yourself middle class then you are absurdly out of touch.

Thanks for the tip. Are you a financial planner? Or are you talking out your a$$?

He's right. Besides more expensive housing, what is significantly more expensive then the rest of the country in Boston? At north of $500,000 a year, you are in the top 3/10 of 1% of America.

By definition, this is upper class. How you feel about it is irrelevant. Whether you can pay for your children's college education or not doesn't have any bearing on whether you are upper class or not at this income level.

Gyydjrknf wrote:

Not upper class wrote:

Anyway, I didn't mean to imply that we're not comfortable. We could conceivably swing the kitchen upgrade, for example. But we're conservative about spending, put a lot into retirement (I do in fact have a financial planner), and as compared to friends who make twice as much as we do, our lives are rather spartan. And compared to people I work with who are truly upper class ($5MM+ yearly) there is no comparison at all.

You are absurdly out of touch with reality. So much so that I now question the truth of anything you've written. You are the definition of an unreliable narrator.

May I ask what kind of work you do that you make $550,000 a year and your colleagues make 5 million?

You are correct. It is very strange how many posters can't accept facts regardless of the topic. I can post studies or actual data on various topics, yet most will argue. On this topic, we can post the income level of the top 5% or top 10% and we can post the Pew Research's definition, but people fall into the trap of udentufying upper class as someone above them. I am upper class with incone of $150k and investments of $2M. That doesn't mean I can do whatever I want, it just pyts me in the upper class.

The Overexplainer wrote:

Not upper class wrote:

Thanks for the tip. Are you a financial planner? Or are you talking out your a$$?

He's right. Besides more expensive housing, what is significantly more expensive then the rest of the country in Boston? At north of $500,000 a year, you are in the top 3/10 of 1% of America.

By definition, this is upper class. How you feel about it is irrelevant. Whether you can pay for your children's college education or not doesn't have any bearing on whether you are upper class or not at this income level.

Yes, $500K annual income is probably in the upper 0.3% of households in the U.S. So are upper income and upper class essentially the same thing? Is there any difference between them? Is is possible for someone to have less income and still be upper class? If so, under what circumstances?

Here is a question for all of those equating income with class: If Donald Trump, Elon Musk, etc. has significant business losses and reports negative income for the year do they fall out of the upper class?

Yeah...that level of money is rare for doctors and lawyers. This guy's income is really blowing my mind. But then again, this is Letsrun. He also runs a 14 flat 5k and his wife is a Victoria's Secret model.

And by the way, the greater Boston area does tend to pay higher salaries, as well. So if I were to move to Nashville, a house would cost less...I'd also be paid less. It doesn't quite even out, but kinda.

Upper class is an almost meaningless term. Rich is also pretty meaningless, as is any measure based on income. I mean the guy working at an investment bank could make $1M a year but has no job security. Arguably the government employee or union worker making $150k a year is richer because they can’t get fired and will have a pension. So if you define rich or upper income as not having to worry about money, isn’t the government worker the richest?

Wealthy I think is pretty clear - it’s having enough assets that you don’t need to worry about working income and can still enjoy many luxuries. One could argue different numbers but I’d think most would fall between $3M and $10M. Realistically it’s probably closer to $10M (including real estate) because that’s what it takes to live well in a HCOL area, send your kids to private school, have a second home, etc, all things which are typical for working professionals.

Then again saying that someone who is consistently making $1M a year isn’t rich is kind of silly.

So if we need a cutoff based on income, I guess you could define “rich” or upper class as reasonably assured to hit a $10M net worth by age 50 or something? So maybe $500k a year in average earnings over their working career? Because if you are making $500k at 30 it’s not the same as just getting to $500k at age 50.

May I ask what kind of work you do that you make $550,000 a year and your colleagues make 5 million?

Finance, obviously. In Boston could be private equity or investment management such as Fidelity. I don't know how many people in the Boston area are making ~5mil plus, but it isn't just a few dozen, more like hundreds.

What do lawyers and doctors have to do with it? All things being equal physicians and lawyers making serious dough these days are basically just entrepreneurs.

500k+ is really not that uncommon in high finance and technology. Hell, 4/6 people who report to me will clear 500k this year in tech. In the Bay Area this can be a run of the mill joe at a FAANG 5 years out of college.

I work in finance but I’m not an investment professional. I know I work with a lot of people that make $5m a year and plenty that make wayyyyyyyy more. I bet there are some people at my firm making $20m a year no doubt. From Investopedia: “ The top fund managers in the industry have been known to bring in $10 million to $25 million per year in exchange for employing envious stock-picking skills. Fund managers receive additional income based on the total assets under management.” Boston is a serious investing hub. Seth Klarman has his hedge fund shop set up there and a lot of other people do too. It’s a pretty incredible financial center.

hedge fund manager wrote:

May I ask what kind of work you do that you make $550,000 a year and your colleagues make 5 million?

Finance, obviously. In Boston could be private equity or investment management such as Fidelity. I don't know how many people in the Boston area are making ~5mil plus, but it isn't just a few dozen, more like hundreds.

$20m! What is going on in the world where people can make that much money and not even create anything except returns for other people.

I'm sorry for posting here but I'm wondering how much money I can earn in order to become upper class, what can you say?

This thread is just...wow.

Best thing that ever happened to our family was we moved to a low cost of living state that still has excellent public schools. My kids are happier than ever, people here are friendly and fun and generally not stressed out.

We convinced ourselves for years the high taxes and good schools, and the “safety” (whiteness) of our sleepy high cost town were worth it. Not even close. The public schools here are just as good. Now my kids have rich friends, poor friends, black friends, Indian friends, Hispanic friends. And they’re better for it. It’s really hard to get out of that WASP mentality when you’re locked into one of those areas, but I promise you, a lot of the things people think are setting their kids up for “success” are actually setting them up to be entitled, narrow-minded and anxious adults.

One of my friends from our waspy town was a doctor and felt so suffocated living there that he moved overseas to basically do missions type medical work. Their 3 kids went to a Spanish speaking school in this dirt poor country.

All 3 kids (now in their 20s) got into Stanford. And the parents weren’t Stanford alumni either.

Supralapsarian wrote:

Not upper class wrote:

I live in the Boston area and make a bit more than that. I consider myself solidly middle class, not upper middle. We worry about money, we can't afford the kitchen remodel our older house desperately needs, we're not sure how we'll afford our kids' college, etc. Upper middle to me means freedom from some of these headaches and I'd say that's $1,000,000+ in this area.

What on earth do you do that your income is over 500k...and you’re middle class?

A C level of Data and Analytics in Boston makes about $300,000, If a C level is barely middle class, then VPs are lower class... and the population that is rather large and under $100k? All in poverty?

A “C level” person at my Boston-based company is pulling in many (likely tens of) millions per year, all VPs and many directors a million+. If you’re looking on sites like Glassdoor for compensation info, forget it, for senior roles it’s usually a multiple of what you see there, especially for companies that are heavy on equity comp. It is very easy to live in a VHCOL area and make half a million and feel middle class, or at least to have that lifestyle if most of your income is going towards retirement.

us, upper class; oxymoron.

you havent got the centuries of inbreeding required.

I think upper class/wealthy are all subjective terms. Our HHI is 403k this year will be 515k next year(doc) and in my neighborhood(MW Medium cost of living city) I feel like were middle class at best. Our neighbor is building a 3Mil home next to my 750k home. They have 6 exotic cars, I have a 10 year old Subaru.

There are at least 5 blocks in my neighborhood full of 1-2 Mil homes.

I feel like 5 years ago the salary I have now would be "rich" or upper class but now I look at it differently. Of course we have a high mortgage and pay a lot for our nanny but I dont were upper class.

My definition is rich is now owning at a 2-3 Mil home without a mortgage with about 5 mil in the bank. But who knows maybe that definition will change for me in a few years

Doc Martin wrote:

I think upper class/wealthy are all subjective terms. Our HHI is 403k this year will be 515k next year(doc) and in my neighborhood(MW Medium cost of living city) I feel like were middle class at best. Our neighbor is building a 3Mil home next to my 750k home. They have 6 exotic cars, I have a 10 year old Subaru.

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You are upper middle class at worst and maybe rich. The fact that your neighbor is rich doesn't change that. Compare your 500k income to a middle class person making 75k. You aren't remotely looking at the same financial problems.

I get it that nobody in america wants to accept they are rich or poor so we get absurd definitions of middle class going from 30k->3million+. And no your expensive city doesn't make that much of a difference.

there's a lot of truth to that last post by adsfda.....

Really, i think it is far more useful to stop thinking about income and start looking at net worth. And that would be esp. true in considering class.

Anyway, how about just strip away all the subjective mumbo-jumbo and revert to a simple percent of the population calculation. It's not that hard to figure one's net worth and see where they land relative to the US demographic, the world population, and in their age group.

Where you draw the line for terms like rich and upper class and upper middle class is up to you. And you might as well come to the realization that those terms involve more than wealth and income, they involve spending, interests, professional status, etc.

letsrun mentality, anyone that makes less than $200K year is a hobby worker.

if you can afford to employ a nanny, you're upper class.