Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 12/1

DietBacon wrote:

I haven’t been on here too much as I’m trying to use less the 2 websites I wasted the most time on, which are letsrun and Quora, but thought I’d come here share with you guys that I finally got a good marathon in, finishing Valencia today in 2:33:33.

AJ, would love to meet up with you in London! I live there and am running it next year as well. I qualified for the club championship entry today with my time in Valencia.

Hope everyone is doing well. Cheers!

Well done DB. We should definitely meet up in London. Maybe we can coax HHH out of hiding too.

The Stone Cutter: Good luck for the CIM! Don't worry if you feel a bit weird during taper/carb load week - you had a tremendous block of training and everything will be perfect!

RunnerSam Lot of racing this week!

NiceGuy Take your time; with marathon it's better to have 2-3 weeks off to repair physically and mentally.

outsiderunner Wish you a quick recovery! Maybe you should go a bit easier for a moment with more ancillary work till you feel strong again to crush progressions.

jq We are defined not only by our ceiling but also by our floor. It sounds like you didn't feel the best way ever but still managed to put up solid performances being at top 3. Kudos!

hoggy jobber 2 months is not perfect but a good option to have 2 training blocks. With more experience over the distance and training 1h30 must be on cards. Just don't forget that your training must be guided by current fitness ;)

Napper Congrats for the sub 35 10k which is good precursor! And good luck with the A race!

Male, 51 yo, 5’7”, 129 lbs

Goals: Jan 19 - Standard Chartered Marathon Taipei - sub 3:10

Nice job, crew! Some good-looking work this week. Really great work by DietBacon!

For me, I feel like I did some good work this week, too. I “read” (audiobook) Running to the Edge over the past week, and that the constant repetition of “running to the edge and staying there” had a not-so-subtle effect. Also, I have a 60 hr workweek ahead of me this week, so it’ll be a “recovery” week in terms of training; I’ll be lucky to run 5 days with a single Q.

Week 8 Q2

8km E + 6km T + 4km E

I ran the whole 6T into the headwind. This was in place of the 6x1000 we talked about on last week’s thread. Choosing to run into the wind was intentional: (1) I need to “bad-assify” myself into this wind, as I will need to deal with it on race day. (2) It gives me no choice but to run by feel. Definitely one of my best ever T runs, executed at what felt like “the edge.” As a bonus, I hit my current vdot T pace without straining into that headwind. I ended up with a bit of a sore shoulder from patting myself on the back after this one.

Week 7 Q1

20 mile Progressive

6k Easy + 5k 4:55/km + 5k 4:50 + 6k 4:45 + 5k 4:27GMP!!! + 3k 4:55km + 2k Easy cool down

Yeah, I know the sched says “steady,” but anticipating the “recovery” week and confident that I really need to continue to alter my “perception of effort” thresholds, this seemed a good call. I did not execute it perfectly; I had originally planned to do a few kms at the end at faster-than-GMP, but I was feeling kinda toasted. Instead of shutting it down completely, though, and going right into an E cooldown, I kept a good pace of GMP + 60 sec/m. That was a mental win.

Probably no time for much LRC this week, but I’ll do my best to keep up!

Relatively unexciting week outside of a race on Thursday. Still consistent though which is good.

M - 9.5 mostly easy with some 200s at the end.

5x200 (45 seconds rest): 31.5, 32.2, 31.5, 31.6, 32.2

4x200 (60 seconds rest): 30.7, 30.0, 30.2, 30.0

3x200 (75 seconds rest): 29.0, 29.0, 27.8

2 minutes between sets.

T - 9.5 miles mostly pretty easy, uptempo 2400 at the end to stay sharp for race day. Ran 7:18 split as 5:00/2:18.

W - 5 miles super easy

T - wu/cd + 5k race in 14:58 for 5th.

Not exactly what I was hoping for. Race was out very quick and I made it through 2 miles pretty decently but the last mile was rough. Part of that was because we were running into the wind, but I also wasn't tough enough. Let myself settle a little which was dumb. Could also tell it was my first time racing since September since the sustained race pace was a shock to the system. Not the worst off day to have, I suppose, but I just wanted a lot more

F - 8 miles easy + 5 miles easy double day.

S - 10 miles easy to medium.

S - 14 mile easy long run. Nasty day so I was happy to just get this in.

M35, 6’-1, 155

PB / 2019:

Mile 4:06 / NT

5k 14:32 / 15:24

10k 31:30 / NT

Half 1:09:48 / 1:08:30

Full 2:34:50 / NT

Upcoming Races:

12/8- Marathon (CIM)

1/19- Half Marathon (Houston)

M: easy, 6M

T: easy, 9M

W: progression, 10M @easy->Mar pace (7:20->5:30)

T: easy, 8M

F: easy, 8M

S: easy long run, 13M

S: off, —

12/1 Total 54 (6d)

11/24 Total 62 (6d), LR=16

11/17 Total 61 (5d), LR=22

11/10 Total 70 (6d), LR=20

11/3 Total 73 (6d), LR=24

10/27 Total 62 (6d), Race HM (1:08:30)

10/20 Total: 73 (6d), LR=19

10/13 Total: 75 (6d), LR=23

10/6 Total 63 (6d), Race 10M (52:45)

9/29 Total 73 (6d), LR=22

9/22 Total: 63 (6d), LR=16

9/15 Total: 70 (6d), LR=18

9/8 Total: 70 (6d), LR=20

9/1 Total: 62 (6d), LR=17

8/25 Total: 52 (5d) **Knee pain**

8/18 Total: 58 (6d) *Rest week*

8/11 Total: 70 (6d), LR=19

8/4 Total: 68 (6d), LR=17

7/28 Total: 66 (6d), LR=17

7/21 Total: 64 (6d), Race 5k (15:38)

7/14 Total: 65 (6d), LR=16

7/7 Total: 50 (5d), *Rest week*

Just a quick update before some sight seeing in Valencia. 40:32 yesterday for me.

Felt great but in the first 3/4 ks the amount of tall buildings sent my gps all over the place and decided to run by feel with a group of 5/6 people. After that I just looked at the watch and was averaging 4:03. Pushed hard and managed to lower that down to an average of 4:01...

I'm very happy with the result, specially since I've only been consistent for 1 month and have little to none volume.

Head was in the right place to suffer and push hard. Wrote my dad's name in the left arm and a friend's name in the left who have both injured themselves in the last week of training before the marathon and couldn't race. Everytime I looked down I felt I could push harder!

Race report might come later in this week! Hope you've all had a great Thanksgiving!

Male 51 5'8" 136lbs

PRs

Marathon 2:57:06 Dec 2018

5k 19:00 June 2018

Upcoming Races

April 2020 Boston

Oct. 2020 Chicago

Mon. 6.6mi Easy

Tues. 6.6mi Easy

Wed. 7.1mi Easy

Thurs. Off

Fri. 7.1mi Easy

Sat. 12.3mi Easy

Sun. 3.3mi Easy

Total 43.2mi

No turkey trot for me on Thanksgiving day. I had too much to do with entertaining and cooking plus I just was not up for it. This past week went rather well. I managed to double my mileage over the previous two weeks. I hope to make another boost in mileage this week to get my volume up before I start my training for Boston. I still need to but together my training plan for Boston.

SI - Dinner in little Italy again ? Booked up a houseboat (again just such a deal) and flights yesterday. RRR is back in bean town. Although I shall miss the lack of Coach Jeff lost phone antics.

M - 27

Goal Race - Virginia Beach (Mar 22), no specific goal in mind yet but thinking 2:40-2:50 is doable.

Base Building Week 3/6

Week Totals: 60 miles in 7h10', only 561' of climbing this week as a result of Thanksgiving on the coast

M (0)

off - I've gone from 3-5 runs a week to 15 runs the past 14 days, so just took a day off.

T (6.3)

PM - 47' @ 7:28, easy on trails

W (10.4)

PM - 1h15' @ 7:11, easy after driving to in-laws for Thanksgiving

R (9.5)

AM - 1h6' @ 7:00, easy, spectated my wife's turkey trot with our infant as the race has banned strollers (boo). Ran back to in-laws house after

F (12.5)

PM - 1h30' @7:14, moderate where the pace is not indicative of the effort due to 25' on winding trails the GPs does not follow well. Finished up with some 6:20s once back on the roads.

Sa (7)

PM - 50' @ 7:14, felt surprisingly good today considering yesterday's distance.

Su (14.3)

AM - 1h40' @ 7:02, slightly quicker than my previous long runs, started to run out of gas the last 15-20' as I had nothing but a cup coffee before the run.

Overall a solid week with a few longer singles than normal thanks to time off around Thanksgiving. With 3 consecutive weeks without a hint of injury or discomfort, I'll be adding a bit of quality in this coming week in addition to the +5 miles per week goal.

Stone Cutter: Solid 2 week out week. I know I said this in the Turkey Trot edition but that Thursday workout must be a huge conference booster. I am really looking forward to seeing how you perform. I would love to get up to your level over my next couple of cycles and like the way you put together your training.

RunnerSam: Tough week with 2 5ks and a workout!

Pappy: Looks like you are easing in nicely.

Outsiderunner: That is a lot of fast miles to close out your runs! Wow! If the weather cooperates what kind of time would you be targeting at Rehobeth out of curiosity?

JotQuill: I wouldn’t sweat the tough races too much. You are still pretty early after NYC. Are you starting a structured training block over the winter or just going into maintenance mode until Spring?

Hoggy jobber: I think the HM might be my favorite distance (given, I have only tried a 5k and a HM at this point). Seems like a good mix of not being able to fake it from a fitness standpoint, long enough that you can work through any mistakes you made but no so long that it destroys you for a long period post race.

Napper: Good luck at Memphis

BHViking: Good luck at CIM. Looks like a solid week.

Darkwave: Good to hear you are feeling better from an energy standpoint. Also good that you found a marathon! Presumably at a smaller race you’ll have a pretty good shot at a win or a podium no? That’s always cool.

Angryjohnny: Solid consistent week. Nice sub 30 200! I got to thinking on my run this morning if I still have the wheels to break 60 in the 400. Something tells me the answer is no.

Legendre: Your schedule looks like a lot of fun, low stress running. I am not going to lie, I am a little bit envious.

Coach Jeff: Awesome Q work. Those are hard workouts and it looks like you nailed them. That has to give you a lot of confidence as you get closer to Jan.

Statfanatic: Solid race. What is your 5k PR?

GNR: Steady week.

Still Improving: Solid maintenance week. When do you start Boston training?

Sans-culottes: Solid week.

45 year old guy 5'6 127

PR's (all from 2018-2019): 16:29 5K, 33:59 10K, 1:15 half, 2:42 full (2018 NYC)

Next Races: CIM 12/8, Surf City Half 2/2020, London Marathon 4/2020

1 Week out from CIM so in taper mode

Mon: Orange Theory Treadmill HIIT 4.8@5:16, Park Recovery 3.5@7:54

Tue: Treadmill Strength 6x1 w/ 0.25 Rec (5:20, 5:19, 5:19, 5:18, 5:10, 4:55/1:39-1:40 Recoveries), WU 0.5@6:35, CD 0.5@6:35

Wed: AM Treadmill Easy Progression + Strides 4@6:46, PM Treadmill Easy 4@7:28

Thu: Rainy, Cold 5K Turkey Trot 16:57, WU 1.2@7:30, CD 2.1@8:20

Fri: Rolling Hills Loop tempo 10@5:55, WU 1.1@7:22, Recovery 1.7@8:30

Sat: Treadmill Easy 6.2@7:46

Sun: Road MLR 13 with 3x1@GMP (6:07, 5:59, 6:04), overall 13.1@6:58

Comments:

Stone Cutter: Great 2x5 tempo intervals workout.. looking very strong for CIM. Good luck to both you and Mrs. Stone at CIM. I am looking forward to a few weeks of recovery after CIM as well before starting up training for London.

RunnerSam: Nice pair of 5K races and congratulations on the 2nd place for your turkey trot race.

NiceGuy: Enjoy the well-deserved recovery from your marathon.

Smoove: Glad to hear you are healthy and doing well.. hope to see you back training and racing when you feel ready for it.

Pappy: Nice to see you still kept some of that speed. Good cross training too to keep your fitness up.

outsiderunner: Still doing a bunch of impressive progression runs. Hope you get better weather for that marathon.

JQ: Nice double for the shortened 5K race and then your 10K race(congratulations on 2nd overall). You probably just need a little more time to recover from your monster marathon effort at NYC.

hoggy jobber: Probably smart to skip the turkey trot if you aren't feeling well. I like half marathons because they don't take that much out of me and I can recover and continue training within a day or two.

Napper: Congratulations on the sub-35 in your 10K and good luck at Memphis! Hopefully we will both get PR's this weekend at our races. I got in to the M40-44 age group (they place you in an age group based on when you first run a qualifying race) with 7090 points with my 2:42 at 2018 NYC and 2:52 at 2019 Tokyo. You just need to make sure the marathons you are racing are considered qualifying marathons for these age group world championships (you can look at their website to confirm). Memphis is a qualifying marathon btw. I am not absolutely sure but I think they will rotate the site of the AG world championships to a different Abbott World Marathon major in 2021.

pewow: Enjoy the vacation to MIA (Miami?)

BHViking: I am doing the same thing this week.. going to sleep in everyday with a goal of 8 hours a night and then run a little in the afternoon. Goal is about 30 miles this week before the marathon. Nutrition wise I plan to carb load prerace with Maurten 320 drink, bananas, and plain bagels with either honey or fruit preserves. During the race I plan to use Maurten 100 gels(1 with Caffeine, the rest without), Saltstick electrolyte capsules, and whatever oncourse hydration the race provides.

darkwave: Glad to see you recovering from your shoulder training and getting back into training.

highhoppingworm: Congratulations on a great turkey trot 5K race and also a very tough quality workout/long run on Sunday. I think you may be able to aim lower than low-2:50's for your marathon.

AJ: Congratulations on the sub-5 mile time trial and look forward to racing London with you.

DietBacon: Congratulations on your 2:33 at Valencia! I look forward to racing London with you as well.

IllinoisRunner: Congratulations on your set of trail/XC races. Solid performances in both races.

legendre: Solid maintenance workouts.

Coach Jeff: nice T into the wind... that is one way to build toughness. Also, very strong progression long run.

statfanatic: Great job on your sub-15 5K. It must have been a very competitive race if you only got 5th with that time.

GNR1: Enjoy the carb load and taper before CIM and good luck at CIM!

PutoMiudo: Congratulations on a solid 10K race at Valencia.

Still Improving: Nice maintenance/base-building week.

sans-culottes: Good week of easy running.

Good luck to everyone racing a marathon this weekend!

highhoppingworm/Bruin - Thanks very much--yes, my eye is on the weather, especially the wind. It is the beach after all. After this morning's run (10.33 at 6:52 overall...6:32, 6:21, 1:59 to finish), I am pretty much in favor now of making the trip to Rehoboth. The leg felt decent enough and I was able to run briskly, though I felt kind of sluggish this morning (for whatever reason). I look at it this way...I paid for this race, and so why not pin on a bib and go for it? To answer your question HHW, if the weather cooperates I will look to PR--will keep it simple and be thankful I am even getting to the start. My PR is 2:46:13. Thus, I will really want something 2:45:xx or better, to be more precise. Will see what I am given on race day.

Will run this race exactly as a training run...a bibbed flyer. Will rest tomorrow, to give it some more TLC.

Stone - great job with that 2x5mi workout. solid last hard workout and a good sign come race day.

Mrs Stone - The 4-3-2 workout paces were nice to see given goal race time

NiceGuy - gj getting that cross training in, Im sure the blood flow is good for recovery, I'd probably take the days 100% off if even just for mental rest

pappy - gj again putting the time in

hoggy jobber - probably a good move pushing off the 5k

jewbacca - glad you ran out of dew, gj with 8hrs of cycling

Napper - solid 10k

pewow - Yes the 5ks were hilly but I do think I under-preformed (at least vs my expectation, maybe not w.r.t. reality). The 19:17 was with around 300ft of elevation(DElaware) and the 18:08 was with 130ft(PA). MIA in MIA, living the life it sounds

BHV - I will have to look up that honey prerace idea, best of luck at CIM.

highhoppingworm - congrats on the 5k PR, looks like a well ran (Even) race

AJ - congrats on that 1mile PR

DietBacon - solid job in Valencia

stat - would have been fun to see that race play out, some stiff competition for sure. onwards to club nats. The XC race on Sat would have been a free 200$ for you, fairly low turnout this year in the guys open race.

Bruin - Looking good heading into CIM, im surprised you didnt take the week a little easier, some intense work in there

BHV, GNR1, Bruin1996, Stones, others - Good luck at CIM. Idk if there is a live stream but I will try to find one. At the very least I'll get the tracking up

I ran Rehoboth last year. It was quite cold, fortunately not terribly windy, but definitely cold. Though a good bit of the course runs near the shore, not much of it is actually open to the ocean and a lot of it is pretty sheltered by trees and the portions of town you go through. It might not be that bad even if there is a bit of wind. You know about the unpaved stretches, right? I didn't do much training off of pavement and those miles took some getting used to in-race. You will be finishing well before I did, but I found the Junction & Breakwater trail was a little crowded with half-marathoners still out there. Otherwise, I liked the race.

drc - Thanks. Yes, I know about the unpaved stretches. I did not think they amounted to much, though. Where are they? I did not see them marked off on the course map online.

Stone: Just excited for you and Mrs. Stone to throw down at CIM!

RS: Nice racing this week! + grats on the 2nd place!

NiceGuy: Solid recovery, entertained that your Saturday still had the numbers

"2 6" in there :P.

OR: What a rollercoaster of a winter! Hope everything comes together at Rehoboth to close out the year!

Napper: Congrats on the 10K! Happy taper week, rooting for you to crack down on that goal!

BHV: Sounds like everything is planned out well, can't wait to follow! As far as nutrition, not that helpful but I just try to not really change too much leading up, and actually try to have a lighter dinner the night before (heavier lunch).

darkwave: Sounds like an awesome plan for spring! Hope you get the glory that's been delayed this time around. Super cool about the OT!

HHW: I've never really been too structured in general (improv week by week, day by day), but just hoping to build back up and keep the training going with less urgency through into Spring. Also, gotta throw in congrats again on that BEASTIN 5K!

AJ: Come over to do the 5th Ave Mile sometime! You've clearly got the gears, big congrats on that mile!

DietBacon: Wow awesome running at Valencia, congrats on the killer performance!

legendre: Thanks! Looks like a solid week of keeping the ball rolling. Hitting up a 2H long run still as well!

Coach Jeff: A set of beastin Q days, looking mighty mighty strong! Those shoulder pats are well deserved.

stat: Kudos again on the 5K! Rust busted, so the next few will hopefully be what you were looking for.

PM: Grats on the race, great effort!

Bruin: Excited for you to hopefully crush that PR at CIM!

Thanks for the good vibes. Looking forward to a great race and fair weather (fingers crossed). I am bib # 6570 for anyone tracking the race. Any other CIM bibs out there? Bruin, BHV, Mr & Mrs Stone?

The unpaved portions amount to maybe 9-10 miles but they're not consecutive miles. It's mostly crushed gravel except for a long bridge over some marsh out on Gordon's Pond trail. (Looking at my GPS trace from last year to supplement my memory) Maybe 2.5-3 mi unpaved going out on that trail, then pavement for some miles, then back to unpaved parts on the way back. The bridge felt weird to me at first but it's long enough I kind of got used to it. Fortunately it's a nice bridge, pretty wide and it's not crowded. The Junction & Breakwater trail portion is unpaved from maybe around 20 or 20.5mi to the turnaround ~22, then you get that coming back too before it finally goes back to pavement, so another 3.5 to 4 miles on the crushed gravel.

I got a grain between my sock and ankle coming back on the Gordon Pond trail from Lewes. Not bad enough to stop and dig it out, but it annoyed me for quite some time before my brain finally tuned it out.

jot quill wrote:

I feel like it's always a mix -- sometimes you have the mechanics for speed but not a big enough engine to hold that speed at 10K or marathon etc. How do you fair in shorter near-maximal efforts like strides/hill sprints?

Jot, I realized you asked me this question in last week's thread and I forgot to respond - sorry, that was rude and I apologize as I greatly appreciate you taking the time to provide feedback and advice.

I'd say I'm a pretty slow dude when it comes to top-end speed, and have been as far back as I can remember. Strides feel okay but those are obviously short in duration (and I'm probably not going much past mile pace). When I do 400 repeats, I wouldn't really describe my effort as "smooth" and I feel like I'm putting myself at injury risk if I push too much past 5k pace, so I've been sticking to 1k repeats at 10k pace for the most part. The closest viable hill for hill sprints is a few miles away and I've never really taken advantage of it for that purpose. All this to say, I don't think the mechanics for speed are really there at this point. :)