Are the top high school XC programs in Colorado recruiting?

Valor is a private school. Private schools recruit. By definition.

Stjane wrote:

Seems to me some of the top high school XC programs in Colorado aren’t simply relying on good coaching any more? On the girls side at NXR this past weekend both Valor Christian (2nd place) and Niwot (3rd) had girls on on their squads who hadn’t competed during the season due to transfer ineligibility rules. Both squads #1 runners were transfers. I know both these programs have great coaches, but it looks like they may be just as good at recruiting to land such talent. Hate the uneven playing ground in presents. I’m sure the evolution of NXN has played a big part in this shift of kids swapping schools so often. Valor also has a top runner on the boys side transfer in this year.

Your post is a little misleading regarding Niwot.

Their #1 (Samrawit Dishon) has competed at Niwot for 3 years now. It doesn't appear she transferred in. Their #1 last weekend (Lucca Fulkerson) has competed at Niwot since her freshman season in track. This is her third season competing for the program. Not sure the story behind her competing for Alexander Dawson (an area private school) during freshman and sophomore XC. She was officially competing for Niwot throughout this season in XC as well though ... it could be that she used to attend Alexander Dawson and compete for Niwot in sports not offered by Dawson, but moved full-time to the public school system this year? Who knows. I don't know the kid but that seems plausible to me.

The only Niwot girls that ran at NXR that wasn't competing during the season was a pair of JV kids: sophomore Evelyn Boyd and senior Gabby Thomas. The sophomore doesn't appear to have run for any other program before (only other athletic.net profile for her was her 6th grade profile for Sunset MS) ... I'm not familiar with the St. Vrain school district, but a quick check of their school district map shows that Sunset is indeed the feeder school for Niwot, so she probably didn't "transfer in" and was instead enrolled all along. As for the senior, it's probably a situation where she doesn't compete for Niwot and was just mistakenly signed up under their club for some reason (I've seen that happen in several regions before). She competed during the season for Holy Family HS, a local private school, so it doesn't appear that she is a case of transferring into Niwot in order to boost their XC program either.

Transfers have happened since WAY before NXN started up, and happens in other sports and at less competitive schools at least as often. It is natural for people to try and seek out the best opportunities for themselves or their kids, and sometimes that happens to mean that a talented runner transfers to a school that has a good distance program.

As for Valor Christian, all private schools "recruit" in the sense that kids don't automatically enroll in their school and go into their program and instead parents choose to send their kids to those schools. I have no idea if Szuch transferred in specifically for the chance to run on their XC team (I'm guess not - while Valor Christian is a good program, it's not like they are a consistent contender at even the state level), or if their program being solid was just a benefit to the other reasons to enroll in the school.

Fulkerson definitely competed for Dawson as a freshman and sophomore. She only ran in JV meets this season as she was ineligible via the CHSAA transfer rules. Rumor has it that the Niwot head coach K. Christensen was actually on probation due to recruiting violations for this school year. These coaches are doing all they can to pull at the top athletes to their HS programs. While Real Training (off-season program co-coached by Coach Christensen) is a money maker for those who run the program it’s set up as a lure to all the top athletes (many outside of the Niwot school zone) in the area that partake in the program, as both coaches who run Real Training are head track/XC coaches at Niwot.

Fulkerson was all-state last year while at Dawson.

https://chsaanow.com/2018-11-12/all-state-girls-cross-country-teams-2018/

Lanie Szuch came to Valor Christian after a year at Evergreen (which isn't real close to Valor Christian). Her brother stayed at Evergreen. Isabella Prosceno came to Valor Christian after a year at Palmer Ridge (which also isn't real close to Valor Christian). Both were ruled by the Colorado state association to be ineligible for the entire school year due to athletically-motivated transfers.

While you're figuring that out, take into account that Taylor Whitfield, also one of Valor Christian's top runners, competed at a middle school in Colorado Springs that is about an hour away from Valor Christian.

None of this adds up precisely to proof that Valor is recruiting, and I doubt they are doing it overtly, but they aren't doing much to discourage it, either.

Cole Sprout transferred to Valor Christian as a sophomore as was given partial varsity eligibility for the school year two years ago--which means it was not deemed to be an athletically-motivated transfer. The Sprout transfer was a watershed case and lots of transfers have started popping up at Valor since then.

Lucca Fulkerson ran cross country at a small private school close to Niwot for two years which didn't have a track program. She ran track in the spring for Niwot both years. She did transfer to Niwot this year and was ruled by the state association to be ineligible for cross country due to an athletically-motivated transfer.

Nike ruled that all three were eligible for their competition in Arizona. Same rule as let Easton Allred run for Mountain Vista last year. Thus, Nike is creating motivation for these kids to transfer apart from anything the schools may or may not be doing. Let's not kid ourselves, NXN is a big draw.

I don't know anything about any rumor that the Niwot coach is under the eye of the state association for recruiting. He's definitely not suspended as he was coaching all season long and at the state meet.

Niwot is in the St. Vrain Valley School District which has open enrollment between schools. With Niwot being the dominant running program of late, lots of talented runners are opting into Niwot, way more than would be attending Niwot on a strict boundary system. I believe there are eight high schools in the SVVSD, so lots of potential to build a very competitive program just by open enrollment.

The club Niwot High School more or less runs is Real Training. They draw kids from lots of places besides Niwot, hence the misplaced athlete or two in the NXRSW results.

The system seems off and NXN (Nike) has definitely changed things. As for the Niwot coach I too have heard he was put on watch (probation - whatever you want to call it) for reaching out to top kids in the area. Obviously he’s a good coach, but he’s working the system if he’s illegally getting kids to his program. I know for a fact in recent years Niwot has had quite a few quality runners open enroll as freshman (which is within rules), but it does make you wonder how much he may be involved.

As for Valor, if they are free to recruit without penalty (as one poster suggest all private schools do so), than it seems to me that they should be in a different class (i.e.- Private schools, 5A, 4A, 3A....). Talk about unfair advantage.

This is America not public atheist communist China. So get over it.

Ritter wrote:

As for Valor, if they are free to recruit without penalty (as one poster suggest all private schools do so), than it seems to me that they should be in a different class (i.e.- Private schools, 5A, 4A, 3A....). Talk about unfair advantage.

Valor has, of their own accord, opted up to 5A (6A in football) in every sport. That's Colorado's largest classification. They are small 4A in terms of actual enrollment. Prosceno and Szuch will be eligible by state association rules next year, so they probably come in as favorites for the 5A girls state cross country title next fall. The one significant transfer they landed for boys this year graduates in the spring along with Cole Sprout so they won't figure as boy's favorites or even close to it in the fall.

In football, Valor plays a lot of games out of state. I don't know if that will start happening in cross country or not.

Correction, Colorado's largest classification in football is 5A. That is where Valor plays. Their first two games this fall were against high-profile teams from outside of Colorado. After that they played within the state boundaries.

Valor recruits like crazy, they’ve been busted for recruiting before and it’s been covered by the Denver Post. I’ve talked to other respected coaches that won’t even go to track meets at Valor because their staff is always talking to kids from other schools. Many of their top athletes like Cole Sprout and Anna Hall did not start high school at Valor. Last year they won 5A state titles in Football, Volleyball and girls and boys Track, after moving up from 4A a couple of years ago. Their volleyball team swept through state easily undefeated the whole season and their girls track team won state last spring by over 50 points, but I’m sure they are no longer breaking CHSAA recruiting rules, right? The only reason they haven’t been dominating XC is because it’s not a priority for them. Until they got Cole Sprout they didn’t seem to care a whole lot about distance running. Now that they’ve had a taste of success in XC with Sprout I’m sure you are going to be seeing a lot more of them.

CHSAA keeps making changes to the transfer rules but I don’t think they are ever going to create anything resembling a level playing field for high school sports in Colorado. It‘s not just Valor either, there’s Lutheran High School in 3A and for years Heritage Christian was dominating 1A. I feel really bad for the small towns in these classifications competing against these private schools. I think the answer is to put all the private schools into their own classification together so they can beat up on each other.

Ritter wrote:

As for Valor, if they are free to recruit without penalty (as one poster suggest all private schools do so), than it seems to me that they should be in a different class (i.e.- Private schools, 5A, 4A, 3A....). Talk about unfair advantage.

Hang on a second, you comment has boggled my mind.

“If they are free to recruit”?

For you to ask this question you would need to be afflicted with complete tardation. Just slow down and think for a second about what a private school is and how students come to attend a private school. Literally every single student at Valor (or any private school) lives within the boundaries of a public school. Do you think private schools are assigned or given a student body from some unknown power or agency? Do the students spontaneously materialize?

Dude.... just take a second and think about how things work in this world.

Ritter wrote:

As for Valor, if they are free to recruit without penalty (as one poster suggest all private schools do so), than it seems to me that they should be in a different class (i.e.- Private schools, 5A, 4A, 3A....). Talk about unfair advantage.

Valor or any other private school is not free to recruit. CHSAA has very strict, if somewhat unenforceable rules regarding high school coaches talking to athletes from other schools, including middle schools. That’s right high school coaches are not even allowed to talk to middle school athletes in Colorado. No where do the rules give an exemption to private schools. The fact is Valor has it’s own track club, run by the high school coaches that include younger athletes that they feed into their high school program. You see them at USATF meets during indoor and summer club meets wearing Valor uniforms (another CHSAA violation BTW). And despite that a significant portion of their star athletes started their high school athletic careers at different schools, too many to just be a coincidence.

CO Coach wrote:

The fact is Valor has it’s own track club, run by the high school coaches that include younger athletes that they feed into their high school program. You see them at USATF meets during indoor and summer club meets wearing Valor uniforms (another CHSAA violation BTW). And despite that a significant portion of their star athletes started their high school athletic careers at different schools, too many to just be a coincidence.

I've often wondered why CHSAA doesn't rule these clubs out of bounds for high school coaches. In addition to the Valor Track Academy, there's Amata at Lutheran and Real Training at Niwot, which tells us that public schools do it too. The clubs do offer some good track and field training, but all three function as conduits to the respective schools. It's a simple conflict of interest with state association rules.

I think the Valor summer and winter club uniforms are not technically the same as the school uniforms, but the imprinted logo on the front is definitely the same.

For all we might say about the clubs, though, my hunch is that the Nike rule that allowed Easton Allred to run for Mountain Vista last year had more to do with the current wave of transfers than anything else. If you're at that level, NXN has way more pull than missing a year of varsity competition at the state-sanctioned level. In effect, the school team aspect of NXN is revealed to be a very thin facade.

What am I missing? Valor finished 11th at the state XC meet. Not exactly dominant.

Good morning, friends. I wanted to chime in here as I'm actually the XC & Distance coach at Valor. My name is Greg Coplen and this is my 8th year coaching at Valor. I don't get on letsrun very often, but the house is quiet so far on this Thanksgiving morning. So, I just came across this thread.

Allow me to respond to a few thoughts on this thread.

I don't know the exact "CHSAA rule" wording regarding middle school contact, but I know that it does not extend to club sports. There are many high school coaches throughout this state that coach during the winter/summer within a club. Kelly from Niwot is not the only high school coach at REAL training. There are coaches from several local high schools that work with REAL training and they're an absolutely fantastic club. Valor has chosen to have it's own middle school/high school academy and we work within CHSAA rules. We would not be allowed to have an academy if we did not work within those rules. That's the bottom line. And there are many clubs within CO that have the same setup with high school coaches.

Taylor Whitfield-someone said that she ran at a Colorado Springs middle school. Taylor lives 1 mile from Valor and always has. She was homeschooled growing up and hadn't run more than a mile before high school. The only club she ever ran with was ours, she didn't run distance, and she long jumped about 11 feet. She was generally one of our last place runners during the summer leading up to freshman year. She's since become a 4:55, 10:35, 17:33 girl. She works really hard and has great success. It's possible there is another Taylor in Colorado Springs, but it's not our Taylor.

We also have a girl on our team this year, Ashley Jones, that lost her right arms in an ATV accident 4 years ago. She tore her ACL playing soccer two years ago and started running with us last spring. She was our #5 runner, ran 18:35 at NXR, and signed with High Point University to continue her success as a mid/distance runner.

Regarding transfers: Valor has numerous transfers come in every year, some play sports and some don't. It's a college prep high school with an incredible Arts program, great facilities and a great staff. It's also a Christian faith based school. There are many families that send their kids to our school because of those things. The school costs $20,000 a year. There is tuition assistance, needs-based, that is decided upon by a group outside the walls of Valor. Very much like a FASFA. But the majority of our families are paying that full tuition cost.

Regarding recruiting: We do our absolute best to do things the right way, to play by the same rules as everyone else. We have two open houses a year where we're allowed to talk with families about all things athletic or beyond. We can answer any question during those open houses. We actually employ a CHSAA compliance officer at the school. There were some recruiting violations early on at Valor and I promise the school has learned a lot regarding those past mistakes.

I'm not going to get into the personal transfers of any of our kids, but I will promise you they were done the right way regarding CHSAA rules. Kids know at this point they will 99% lose a year of eligibility if they make a transfer. That's not just a XC things, that's an all-sports thing. The two high profile transfers that came in to our program this year lost a year of Varsity and it was very, very hard on them. They made the switch because they wanted something different, like most families do when they make a switch.

Colorado is an open enrollment state. Kids can go to any school they want to. I'll just speak about the schools that are within a 10 mile radius of Valor because I know those schools more, but every one of those programs, XC and beyond, have kids competing that actually "should" go to school somewhere else. Kids/families will go to school where they want to. Generally an athletic program will benefit from that.

Someone spoke about Cole Sprout only getting 1/2 year of ineligibility. Up until two years ago that was the CHSAA rule. 1/2 year of Varsity ineligibility. Again, that was the rule for any kid in the state, for any sport, if it was deemed non-athletically motivated and Cole's was deemed that. I can promise you that CHSAA did not change that ruling because of a high school distance runner.

I don't write this looking for an argument or debate. I really just wanted to introduce myself and say we're doing things the right way and working really hard just like any other school. Our kids train together 46 weeks of the year and have made a decision this is what they want to be good at, just like numerous other schools. A lot of our kids run 46 weeks of the year because they just love the culture and friends they've made. They won't be running at the next level and many of them will never taste a Varsity race.

My first year of coaching at Valor we finished 11th out of 13 teams in a weaker 4A region. The next year, with the same exact girls we finished 7th and qualified our first ever individual for state. The next year, we qualified for state as a team for the first time and have qualified every year since. We had a girl on that team who ran a 12:47 mile when she first started. She ran a 19:00 5K that year and ended up running D1 when she left high school. Another girl that went from a 20:30 down to a 18:06. That team really started the build for our program. It's grown and it's grown the right way. Our growth has looked like a number of programs that have a culture of wanting something better than what they've had in the past. The girls bought in and have made it happen.

I guess lastly is just this: the kids/families in our program, like most high school XC programs, are high character kids and families. They're not dishonest families looking for a "recruiting" come-on. I try my best to be a high character coach and leader. To be a high character husband and father. I'm not some evil coach and we're not some evil school. I have fantastic friends within the coaching community and those outside coaches that know me and our program best know we're doing this the right way.

I love high school sports and I'm doing my best to give kids a great experience, probably like most of your own coaches.

I hope each of you has a fantastic Thanksgiving Day. Much to be thankful for. Enjoy your winter and spring of coaching and competing. My email at the school is

greg.coplen@valorchristian.com

. If you ever have a question about any of what I've talked about please feel free to reach out. I'm not the enemy and I really want to have relationships with other coaches that let them know I'm/we're not the enemy.

Peace, my friends.

Are we sure it's not the parents of these kids, not the coaches, that are initiating contact and trying to get their kids into better programs?

I know nothing about the situation in Colorado that this post is about. But I'm going to be in a similar situation with my kids in a year or so. The school district they are in is a joke in cross country and track. I have a general idea of some local schools and some out of state schools that we might move to when the time comes.

I'm just saying you shouldn't always blame the coaches.

And Anna Hall woke up on day and said to herself “I think I will transfer to Valor”. No Valor coach never made any contact with her. Let’s cut the crap, Niwot, and Valor cheats.

critic 100 wrote:

And Anna Hall woke up on day and said to herself “I think I will transfer to Valor”. No Valor coach never made any contact with her. Let’s cut the crap, Niwot, and Valor cheats.

Valor is a private school. That’s how private schools get students. They recruit, sell, entice, incentivize, etc. What planet do you live on?

skeller15 wrote:

Are we sure it's not the parents of these kids, not the coaches, that are initiating contact and trying to get their kids into better programs?

I know nothing about the situation in Colorado that this post is about. But I'm going to be in a similar situation with my kids in a year or so. The school district they are in is a joke in cross country and track. I have a general idea of some local schools and some out of state schools that we might move to when the time comes.

I'm just saying you shouldn't always blame the coaches.

Who says private school coaches are not allowed to reach out and aggressively recruit?

How exactly does a private school get students to come to their school without talking to the students? WTF?

Every single student at every single private school has a designated local public school.