Unnamed NOP pro on Mary Cain- “she’s such a wuss.”

wejo wrote:

We have found the clip in the podcast and you can listen to it in the link below (and the whole podcast if you want).

It's about 1 minute and 30 seconds long and we have it set to start at the right point.

Days of our lives lol. Perhaps they should go and live in a mud hut in Kenya/Uganda, eat mainly ugali and train their arses off on dirt roads.

Never liked that lady wrote:

Never liked Rowberry. Always thought she was dirty. Her piling on Cain probably is trying to protect herself.. discredit Cain. Can't wait for Rowberry's wins to be vacated once they find she's was doping the whole time.

Totally agree with you about Rowberry, but Rowbury is the complete opposite.

Thank goodness the OP shared this in the first place. A day on Lets Run without an excuse to blame a woman for being weak is like a day without sunshine.

Roidberries and Cream wrote:

Never liked that lady wrote:

Never liked Rowberry. Always thought she was dirty. Her piling on Cain probably is trying to protect herself.. discredit Cain. Can't wait for Rowberry's wins to be vacated once they find she's was doping the whole time.

This explains why Rowburys recent Instagram post was the ultimate in deflection. She posted all these things she’s done to support women without acknowledging that she was teammates with Cain during her entire time there.

Note the difference between Rowbury deflecting and Kara apologizing she didn’t step up when Begley was criticized.

Rowbury only cares about her public image

The prototype liberal.

Middle Ground wrote:

Thank goodness the OP shared this in the first place. A day on Lets Run without an excuse to blame a woman for being weak is like a day without sunshine.

Uh, it is a woman calling another woman weak. This is a man's fault now?

Roidberries and Cream wrote:

Never liked that lady wrote:

Never liked Rowberry. Always thought she was dirty. Her piling on Cain probably is trying to protect herself.. discredit Cain. Can't wait for Rowberry's wins to be vacated once they find she's was doping the whole time.

This explains why Rowburys recent Instagram post was the ultimate in deflection. She posted all these things she’s done to support women without acknowledging that she was teammates with Cain during her entire time there.

Note the difference between Rowbury deflecting and Kara apologizing she didn’t step up when Begley was criticized.

Rowbury only cares about her public image

I think your last line is way too simplistic.

This has to be a difficult week for anyone in the group as even if you saw some of the bullying behavior towards Cain, I think it is easy to not have known what a dark place she was in. Easy in retrospect to say a lot of people should have done different things but fellow athletes in the group aren’t going to be high up on the blame list for me. They weren’t 18 year old kids but the group had huge power imbalances. It’s clear none of them spoke out while in the group. We should all learn from that.

Even the quote that this thread is about if true was designed to be a private message between two people. Insensitive, for sure, especially with hindsight. But whoever said it was just like everyone else on the team. Doing their own thing. But I don’t think makes them any worse than anyone else who didn’t lend a helping hand.

I went and found the post you are talking about and it is below.

I once explained to a friend that you can enjoy women's running as much as men's because they are pushing themselves to the same physical limits in training and racing. Now, I will never look at women's running the same because it appears so many of them are narcissistic drama queens who are constantly sniping and whining that someone else is responsible for their failures. Sorry I am out with women's running.

I once cared wrote:

someone else is responsible for their failures. Sorry I am out with women's running.

A guy was responsible for Cain's failure.

Are you also out with men's coaching?

And the heroic women who speak out about someone commenting on their weight were silent when three DSD XY runners were destroying their sports identity as a women competitors right in front of their eyes. Wow real courageous heroes these gals are. Oh, and I suppose this particular cowardice was also explained by some kind of power imbalance with their coaches.

- At least the women "get after it" in National Championships versus just sit & kick like the boring men.

What I like about this anecdote being publicized is it something no-one has mentioned in 3 pages of posts

It kills off some of the what I think is largely overly blown - the way Cain's allegations have been presented in a male vs female way. For example Cain's article talked about how "an all-male Nike staff became convinced that in order for me to get better, I had to become thinner and thinner" whereas Lauren Fleshman says she grew up "on a sports system built by and for men."

Here we have an example of a woman allegedly being mean to another woman. I know of plenty of examples of women coaches being completely assholes to other women about eating. When I was at Cornell, I heard there was another NCAA coach (female) was forced to resign for telling an athlete who had been given a minimum weight goal by the nutritionists how to beat the test- drink a lot of water, put a roll of quarters in her pants, etc.

In the Women's Running article on this topic, I was disgusted by the following quote from Nicole LaVoi, director of the Tucker Center for Research on Girls and Women in Sport. “There’s plenty of research available about training principles and creating healthy cultures for athletes,. The problem is that you have to get that research to the right people who are actually working with the athletes—if they’re a bunch of old white guys, they’re going to do what they’ve always done. The idea isn’t ‘how do we coach women?’ It’s ‘how do you coach human beings.’”

All of that quote is fantastic except for the "old white guys" part. I don't think the fact that they are white or guys has much to do with it. Yes perhaps it is old coaches who are the most set in their ways are the least likely to change and most of the old coaches are white men but their whiteness and being men has little to do with it.

Now maleness may have something to do with it. Do I think if there were more women coaches, the problem would be lower? Yes .But this isn't some sexist conspiracy like it's being so commonly presented. It's just misinformed assholes - both male and female - prioritizing results over everything else.

A friend told me Mary was immature and responsible for her own failures.

Heroic Women I think not wrote:

And the heroic women who speak out about someone commenting on their weight were silent when three DSD XY runners were destroying their sports identity as a women competitors right in front of their eyes. Wow real courageous heroes these gals are. Oh, and I suppose this particular cowardice was also explained by some kind of power imbalance with their coaches.

Cain was also looking to rejoin NOP and only threw AlSal under the SJW bus after he was banned. Not really heroic on her part.

Classic signs of narcissism include not being able to handle criticism in a normal manner, blaming failures on others and taking solace in bringing other people down. The root of narcissism usually begins relatively early in life but gets expressed later in life. Mary has all of these signs.

wejo wrote:

https://overcast.fm/+Scb4M36n0/27:18

Thank you for the link. I'm listening right now.

It was raining, and people were close together under a tent. I think it's inappropriate to publicly shame an athlete just for having bacon on the plate at a diner. It's better to bring this matter up privately with a certified nutritionist.

It's sad to hear that Mary tried to vomit to lose weight. I don't think this type of "toughness" should be the price to pay in order to be a professional athlete.

Rojo I agree with you. The narrative of this being a men out to exploit women issue bothers me (I’m a woman btw).

One thing I think you guys did get wrong I’m listening to your podcast (and I think a lot of men do) is the reason young female prodigies never make it. I agree with the implications of Lauren fleshmans article (I generally dislike her and the title was misleading but did agree with the meat of the content). Young female runners don’t burn out only or mostly because their bodies change. They burn out because a) their bodies change a ton and they just aren’t the same runner (minority of cases) b) they were never that good and just trained much harder than others their age, c) their bodies change and they fight it and can’t come out the other side due to injury/issues from eating disorders or other bodily harm, d) they don’t have the mental toughness / love of the sport to keep going when they stop easily winning. Mary is probably c) and maybe some of d). It’s really hard for men to understand the experience of getting slower or plateauing due to bodily changes that often result in weight gain. It sucks. But, if you can stick through it or manage to naively get through it bc you weren’t training at that high of a level at that time, most women’s bodies can be stronger and sustain or improve performance afterwards. The key is that the couple of years where you fill out and put on some body fat can be taken in stride. If you keep eating healthy, and focusing on sustaining or building strength while adapting to changes, you will be ok.

Mary’s body doesn’t strike me as one who is in group a) above. Her hips didn’t widen incredibly, she just filled out some. I think she would have been ok under different circumstances. Not sure she’d ever be well under 4, but low 4’s in the 15 into her mid twenties

Heroic Women I think not wrote:

And the heroic women who speak out about someone commenting on their weight were silent when three DSD XY runners were destroying their sports identity as a women competitors right in front of their eyes. Wow real courageous heroes these gals are. Oh, and I suppose this particular cowardice was also explained by some kind of power imbalance with their coaches.

These politically correct fools are so quick to cry about to support women but stay silent when biological men were dominating women's 800m races. They don't care about women's rights, they care about their own self interests.

All of these washed up women are speaking up now to try staying relevant. Sorry Phoebe Wright, Lauren Fleshman, and even Mary Cain - you are all old news and nobody cares about you anymore.

Signs of narcissism also include a sense of being superior (such as the fastest women ever) but actually having feelings of inadequacy and even self loathing that can lead to destructive behavior. Narcissists tend to be very good at presenting themselves to the world as being very in control and even very excited and bubbly when in fact it is a show, so it often fools people.