Who gave her diuretics and birth control pills - her Dad? Did she ever say Salazar gave her these pills? I didn't see that in her expose, did I miss that?
Who gave her diuretics and birth control pills - her Dad? Did she ever say Salazar gave her these pills? I didn't see that in her expose, did I miss that?
I know this is going to come off as victim-blaming, but when were all of her stress fractures? From what I can tell, it was all post-2015, after she left NOP. Has that been clarified?
It's funny (or perhaps sad) that when you ask a reasonable question, you have to preface it with an apology in this world where everyone is a victim. No offense, but don't you fall victim to the victim patrol blame game. They want to decide what reasonable questions you can and cannot ask.
Can anyone clarify if Mary was ever underweight during her time at NOP? Did she look observably underweight to the extent that you would be concerned about any other women walking down that street looking about her weight? I still have not gotten a single answer from anyone that she looked an unhealthy weight while training at NOP. Why is that?
Who wrote:
Who gave her diuretics and birth control pills - her Dad? Did she ever say Salazar gave her these pills? I didn't see that in her expose, did I miss that?
What she actually said:
"He wanted to give me birth control pills and diuretics to lose weight — the latter of which isn’t allowed in track and field."
And Salazar's disingenuous response:
"The doctor “would have been responsible for prescribing Mary with any medication, including birth control pills. And of course, as I have said many times before, I have never given, encouraged or suggested that any of my athletes take any banned substance, ever.”"
Upon reading Cain's statement, my very catholic wife said "hmmm. A big-time catholic coach suggesting birth control pills to a young, unmarried catholic girl.. That doesn't sound too good."
I'm so glad your knowledgeable wife weighed in on this subject as it is very pertinent to the issues. I also appreciate that you confirmed that Salazar did not give diuretic or birth control pills to Mary based on Mary's own statement and Salazar's response which are both absolutely consistent. Who did Mary consider "The Doctor?" Was it her Dad?
By the way, I knew a few Catholic girls when I was young. Once again, you are found to warp reality to conform to your own pathologically biased agenda.
to add to that.. wrote:
Mary reporting self harm and receiving no help.
Are we sure this really happened? Who else has verified this?
Mary being given diuretics and birth control pills to lose weight.
This isn't verified as well. Alberto says her father was CC'd on all emails to her
I think you all had some really good points on all sides. Shared some very thought provoking insight and dialogue.
All sides have been examined. And really looks like we all agree.
Epstein didn't him self.
Good stuff guys! We nailed it!
Who wrote:
Who gave her diuretics and birth control pills - her Dad? Did she ever say Salazar gave her these pills? I didn't see that in her expose, did I miss that?
Do diuretics even help with weight loss? I mean sure for those mins you are on the scale but any athlete is going to regain that water right away. I am also not aware of many woman who think birth control pills lead to weight loss.
The shocking part of all this stuff is that I would have expected a lot more professional nutrition program with exact calorie and macro measurements. And it appears that AlSal has no clue about training teenage woman or even heard about the female athlete triad.
I assure you her MD dad put in place a professional nutrition program with exact calorie and macro measurements because she was a teen and he was her Dad. Salazar mapped out the workouts needed to make this teen a college level runner and then one day a professional level runner even though she was paid huge amounts of money as a professional from day one.
“ female athlete triad.”?
What is that?
Why are women so complicated and difficult? Men seem so much easier to coach. With all these problems women don’t really seem to be worth the effort. So delicate and fragile. God forbid that a coach dare to treat all athletes the equally.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Shorter Frank here wrote:
Is it necessary for female distance runners to compete at less than their natural weight?
You must be a hobby jogger. The athletes weight is the most crucial parameter of overall physical ability.
Natural weight for a normal person is completely different thing compared to a competitive athlete. For a competitive distance runner a BMI of 18.0 is completely normal. You won't see world champions with a BMI of 21.0 in long distance running. That does not happen because this is too much weight.
No, I was a serious runner, but why would that make me knowledgeable about the effects of weight loss on female distance runners? I never heard of any male runners dieting to lose weight and some lifted weights to put on a few pounds. When I was running 100 mpw, dieting would have been impossible. Frank Shorter said it was impossible for him to gain weight.
Some posters have noted that world class female runners are generally skinny, but we don't know if they are dieting to maintain a lower weight.
This article is about the effects of low weight on female distance runners and it includes missed periods and stress fractures:
https://www.runnersworld.com/health-injuries/a20855296/what-runners-need-to-know-about-missing-their-periods/Mary ran well without dieting in HS. Maybe her body later changed resulting in weight gain that effectively ended her chances of becoming a world class runner. Based on the article, trying to have Mary try to diet below her natural weight was predictably destructive.
It still boils down to individual characteristics, diet, endocrine system, gut microbioma etc. Most would not gain weight on 100 mpw but there are some people that could still gain weight even on that mileage. I am one of them for example. Though I haven't ran 100 mpw for long stretches of time, I still managed to gain weight on 80 mpw consistently if not followed my diet. The faster you become, the more economical you are and it takes less calories to put those miles down.
Regarding Bekeles weight. It is well know that Bekele has struggled with weight gain problems in the last couple of years. When he managed to get his weight under control before Berlin he almost ran WR. His BMI is still 20.6 and he is male which means large part of his BMI is muscle weight.
At one point in the Mary Cain video, she says that NOP had no psychologist on staff, but later she says that she told Alberto and the staff psychologist she was cutting and they didn't do anything. Which is it?
WTFYup wrote:
Exactly!
I read this as a previous HS/College CC female athlete than professional coach and I wonder where Mary's personal responsibility for her own health and well being are in her statement.
She takes NO personal responsibility for her choices to train at that level at her age and to forgo college. Where are her parents in this? How did they need pull her or her pull herself when the training was becoming detrimental to her well being and health.
As a coach, I can see many others coaches that always don't take individual athletes well being and health into concern during training. Many top HS and College coaches have a win only mentality. i observe other coaches obviously overtaining their athletes for short sighted season wins. Many do not take into account long term development and I see it. Super unfortunate to watch really excellent runners at young ages get trashed by coaches. But what can you do it is up to the parents and individual to look out for their best interests.
Mary and her parents did not look out or care for her best interests and now that the dust has settled and her dreams are done - she is bitter and looking for blame. The finger she needs to point is at herself. She made rash, short sighted decisions with the ego's dream of glory never fulfilled and she is left with bitterness and resentment.
Both of these emotional states are when we are personally responsible but insist others are to blame.
She can point at coaching and Nike all she wants but she is the one who made decision do to this (train professional too young) and not withdraw herself when the coaching was not compatible to her well being/health.
Her decision to stay is on her.
Athletes and people in general need to understand at the end of the day that they are always personal responsibility for everything we choose for ourselves . Choosing is staying when you know something is not good for you.
This is exactly my point only much better put down.
Something I noticed wrote:
At one point in the Mary Cain video, she says that NOP had no psychologist on staff, but later she says that she told Alberto and the staff psychologist she was cutting and they didn't do anything. Which is it?
I'm confused on what the public believes the staff's responsibilities are here in regards to self-harming.
She's an adult (over 18). Legally, if she was going to see a mental health professional, they couldn't reach out to anyone else about it without Mary's consent. Self-harming isn't enough to break confidentiality - not even close.
In terms of coaches being 'mandated reporters', I don't think Mary's situation would imply because of her age.
They SHOULD try to get her help, but there's no law that requires them too as far as I know.
I could be wrong, but I think what I posted above is correct.
Most people are overlooking her age (adulthood), as well as the prevalence of self-harming in Mary's age group. Doesn't make it right, but it helps put it in perspective.
Efraimson ran her 3rd and 4th race of her 2019 season faster than Mary's PR, both times were within 1 second of her PR. She then hurt a tendon, which derailed her season. 2020 should be a good one for her.
Aragon may be on the rise.
Cranny is solid, but needs to move up, too stumpy and Shumachers training is not dynamic, more endurance oriented.
Cain is obviously running for office. She will do well, very fake.
Murphy is running again, we'll see.