I believe Mary Cain was permanently harmed by Alberto, mentally and physically. I disagree with her that Alberto should get the most out of her as an athlete. Alberto was set up to earn medals, recruited athletes he thought could make it, and trained them as such. Some won and some broke. We all knew that. Why is any of this shocking?
The overall approach to win at all costs is what is wrong. Whether it was football teams getting players back on the field or their team doctors looking the other way, care for athlete’s health has been an issue across all sports. Weight is Girl’s and Women’s Cross Country is especially a problem. I remember watching phenom Amber Trotter racing Footlocker. Seeing her frame I could not believe how anyone could be letting this girl run. Shaming people to get to a certain weight has prolonged psychological and physical damage that can be permanent. KK also sadly looks to be in a similar situation. Guaranteed her BMI is closer to 16, 17. Just because she has not had an injury yet does not mean what she is doing is healthy. When we put performance over health, coaches are basically using athletes for their own gain. Salazar should have known better. Thank you Mary Cain for making people wake up. I hope this is a reminder what coaches should be really be for their athletes; caring mentors.
I think another issue revealed by the case of Mary Cain is that a coach should be more flexible in customizing his approach to each individual athlete. Maybe she would have responded better to a kinder approach. People generally like to be treated with basic decency and can be turned off when treated like children.
You are confusing amateur athletics with professional athletics, unless you believe all sports at all levels from NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. is about long term development and being caring mentors? Maybe the solution is age restrictions? No one can turn pro in athletics until 1 year of college(I think nfl and nba to that)or have a minor league like MLB.
anathleticsfan wrote:
I think another issue revealed by the case of Mary Cain is that a coach should be more flexible in customizing his approach to each individual athlete. Maybe she would have responded better to a kinder approach. People generally like to be treated with basic decency and can be turned off when treated like children.
It sounds like he "customized" his approach with her by hyper-focusing on her weight loss, with catastrophic results.
anathleticsfan wrote:
I think another issue revealed by the case of Mary Cain is that a coach should be more flexible in customizing his approach to each individual athlete. Maybe she would have responded better to a kinder approach. People generally like to be treated with basic decency and can be turned off when treated like children.
She might have responded better but with a less strenuous approach wouldn't be a world beater. It was medal or bust for Alberto.
mkng1 wrote:
anathleticsfan wrote:
I think another issue revealed by the case of Mary Cain is that a coach should be more flexible in customizing his approach to each individual athlete. Maybe she would have responded better to a kinder approach. People generally like to be treated with basic decency and can be turned off when treated like children.
She might have responded better but with a less strenuous approach wouldn't be a world beater. It was medal or bust for Alberto.
This.... it’s a group for the bekeles and coe’s if the world
Alberto Salazar, with his comfort and familiarity with 5000m to Marathon did not appreciate Mary Cain's unique talent as an 800m runner. Look up elite female top 100 all-time 800m runners on I.A.A.F. Then look up elite female top 100 all-time 1500m runners. There are some on both lists but most are not. At least as a teenager until about age 21, Mary Cain should have been an 800m specialist. Cain had so much room for improvement as an 800m.
I don’t think Alberto wanted bust. Look at the Holland chick Hassan.
I don't know what you guys or Mary Cain expects.
If you don't want to do high level sports than don't sign up for it.
Not everyone is cut out to be a professional distance runner. Mary was too young and not ready mentally and physically . Most people are not as well . Especially with Salazar. He was obviously cutting edge and crossed the line with PED’s, but was still rough around the edges which most professional sports coaches are even before the PED’s. Mary should have gone NCAA for a couple years or gone to a less intense program. But obviously went where the most resources were and best salary .
Does anyone know how much money Nike was paying Cain to maintain her fitness as a professional athlete?
Strange that women insist on equality in sports with men, but many people then say Mary should have been treated differently as a teenage women concerning weight and fitness issues.
Even Shaq was berated for coming into seasons overweight and out of shape. Apparently there was no crying in basketball.
Fan of the Sport wrote:
Not everyone is cut out to be a professional distance runner. Mary was too young and not ready mentally and physically... Especially with Salazar... Mary should have gone NCAA for a couple years or gone to a less intense program.
Jordan Hasay even warned her: Mary Cain, go to college!
Fan of the Sport wrote:
Not everyone is cut out to be a professional distance runner. Mary was too young and not ready mentally and physically . Most people are not as well . Especially with Salazar. He was obviously cutting edge and crossed the line with PED’s, but was still rough around the edges which most professional sports coaches are even before the PED’s. Mary should have gone NCAA for a couple years or gone to a less intense program. But obviously went where the most resources were and best salary .
Salazar was not cutting edge. He must have read books by Peter Coe & David Martin. He incorporated elements from Better Training for Distance Runners for his athletes. He worked the athletes hard. Salazar gave his athletes testosterone rubs.
I'll give you cutting edge:
1) Athletes have been doing workouts since at least 19th Century. We know Lon Myers & Walter George mainly did workouts with little to no mileage runs.
2) Emil Zatopek is the first known athlete to combine workouts and 100 weekly road miles.
3) Arthur Lydiard stated all athletes 800m to Marathon need to run 100 miles a week. Lydiard was creative the way he counted miles. He did not insist athletes log 100 road miles plus workouts.
4) Peter Coe & David Martin advocated reducing mileage especially for 800m athletes plus cross-training which included total body weight lifting.
5) Salazar and some others in late 1970s and early 1980s experimented with running 200 plus miles a week.
6) Faster shoes, faster tracks, greater knowledge of nutrition and different performance enhancing drugs. We know thoroughbred race horses have been given P.E.D.s for over 100 years. So P.E.D.s are nothing new.
If there is something cutting edge about Salazar besides his special c o c k tail of P.E.D.s, I would like to know.
The bottomless checkbook from Nike was cutting edge.
Sidney McLaughlin went to the University of Kentucky for a year to get a taste of the next level, figured out what worked best for her and then made the decision to turn pro. In my opinion, at the high school level she was much closer to world class than Cain and made a far better decision for her career. The Cain 'management team' dropped the ball on this one; she was nowhere near ready to train in Portland in the NOP environment. Staying on the east coast and getting workouts would have been far better choice.
Alberto failed his athlete on every level. Even the posters who are playing at being elite coaches with uncompromising standards for performance should just admit that he failed miserably in this case. Rigidly focusing on bodyweight is not a good way to develop talent. It's a bad approach -- how hard is that to understand? Plus, fostering an abusive atmosphere and a tendency toward humiliation are amateur-level techniques. Look at a coach like John Wooden if you want evidence that developing talent requires encouragement and positivity along with high standards and dedication.
I am reminded of the movie Whiplash.
There are no two words in the English language more harmful than "good job".
mkng1 wrote:
I believe Mary Cain was permanently harmed by Alberto, mentally and physically. I disagree with her that Alberto should get the most out of her as an athlete. Alberto was set up to earn medals, recruited athletes he thought could make it, and trained them as such. Some won and some broke. We all knew that. Why is any of this shocking?
What's shocking to me is his unwillingness to specially tailor a plan to get the most out of his athlete. Classic example of a trying to shove a square peg into a round hole. Get your athlete to the starting line.
YMMV wrote:
anathleticsfan wrote:
I think another issue revealed by the case of Mary Cain is that a coach should be more flexible in customizing his approach to each individual athlete. Maybe she would have responded better to a kinder approach. People generally like to be treated with basic decency and can be turned off when treated like children.
It sounds like he "customized" his approach with her by hyper-focusing on her weight loss, with catastrophic results.
So?
S#it happens in sports
The Cleveland browns have a lot of great players and they suck. You think everyone wins?