What if Alberto is telling the truth?

Sesamoiditis wrote:

dfa wrote:

Think about it, is it not possible?

Alberto could be telling the truth and it still could be an abusive relationship. Alberto could not have realized the harm he was doing when he told her to lose weight. He could have told Mary Cain and Galen Rupp in the same stern tone of voice that they need to lose weight and Mary could see at as him yelling at her while Galen could see it as a good kick in the butt.

- Wouldn't it have been great if the NYT actually "DID" sound journalism & allowed Coach Sal to respond?

- This was a classic NYT fake-news "hit job" .... Mary may not be on the track, but she's now established herself as a "Me-Too Martyr" as "fake" as it's likely be when all the facts come out.

- I hope Dr & Mrs. Cain as well as Mary his happy now .... the parents have explained away their guilt for allowing their daughter to "go pro" and Mary her post-HS performance.

dfa wrote:

Nike Ekin wrote:

The guy is a first class a$$ hole. Everyone knew this long before any story was published.

I never heard any stories of him being an a$$hole to anyone.

So I imagined that entire heat of the women’s 1500 locking hands to protest Alberto being an a-hole to Gabe at USA indoors?

What if Salazar is telling the truth and 10 of his former athletes are all lying publicly, on the record, and when questioned by investigators?

What if all other successful coaches do the same thing, but only Alberto Salazar is accused of malfeasance because he's unlucky and has really mean and spiteful athletes?

What if you are smart and everyone else is gullible?

I agree with those who think there could be a substantial gray area here in perspectives of Mary Cain and Alberto Salazar. I don't think there has been enough discussion of NOP's goals. Alberto was not a high school coach dealing with ninth graders trying track or xc for the first time. The NOP and Alberto have only one goal: Olympic medals. That was presumably Cain's goal in going pro, and joining Alberto and NOP. Maybe he's brusque, harsh, even yells and shames. I don't know. But I know for sure that few women make it to the Olympics in mid-distance and distance events unless they are at the low end of the BMI range. In the 2012 Olympics, the women marathoners had an average BMI of 18.4.

That's not a value judgment--and it might not be healthy. But it is a reality. And it's not likely to change. If any distance athlete doesn't want to watch their weight, fine. There will be many others who are hungrier--interesting how "hungry" is a positive term in sports, in the sense of highly-motivated--and leaner.

Telling the truth about what?

He experimented with the vitamin infusions, testosterone experiments on his sons, and messed around with thyroid medicines all while minding the WADA paperwork.

I do not think he denied this.

He also said he encouraged Mary Cain to reach her race weight.

It is all harsh and ultra-competitive. I would not want to work with him, as it seems he is not okay with the athletes doing less than whatever he wants.

I am not sure what he needs to tell the truth about. the vitamin infusions being above 50mL a few times? I do not know if he even knows that. I doubt he administered them himself.

dfa wrote:

Think about it, is it not possible?

I think it is very possible. If not highly likely.

I challenge anyone to read Alberto's autobiography. Then compare it side by side to all the allegations against him. Then tell me what any real differences are. The only big difference I see is that in Alberto's biography he is insane (and I mean that literally)/ The allegations and investigations say he is a complete @hole.

Maybe Salazar did break some doping rules on a technicality.. I'm just making the point that everything that has come to light about Salazar since the allegations and investigations began lines up with with what Salazar has very openly and publicly said he would do with NOP. He told us years ago that he was going to take a "scientific" approach and press every advantage possible within the rules.

Seriously, it totally baffles me why people say that Salazar isn't honest. I would liken Salazar to a young Steve Jobs who never grew up to learn how to harness his obsessiveness to lead large groups of people.

Salazar is a lot of things and arguable a lot of it is bad. I just don't see dishonesty as one of them.

casual obsever wrote:

longjack wrote:

the real problem is that sal and cain are telling the truth,

that is they have it in their own brains.

Could be, in part. Specifically, Salazar wrote:

"To be clear, I never encouraged her, or worse yet, shamed her, to maintain an unhealthy weight."

So he might have shamed into 114 lbs, thinking it was healthy.

Wouldn't it be funny, both you and I have wanted this guy exposed for years for doping and what really brings him down in the court of public opinion is his violation of the taboo, "Never ask a women her weight."

Ryan Foreman wrote:

dfa wrote:

Think about it, is it not possible?

I challenge anyone to read Alberto's autobiography. Then compare it side by side to all the allegations against him. Then tell me what any real differences are. The only big difference I see is that in Alberto's biography he is insane (and I mean that literally)/ The allegations and investigations say he is a complete @hole.

Maybe Salazar did break some doping rules on a technicality.. I'm just making the point that everything that has come to light about Salazar since the allegations and investigations began lines up with with what Salazar has very openly and publicly said he would do with NOP. He told us years ago that he was going to take a "scientific" approach and press every advantage possible within the rules.

.

The guy who wrote Alberto’s autobiography is on record saying he believes there were things he didn’t tell him about his coaching. So comparing it to the allegations would be comparing something closer to fiction with reality.

Half truths maybe. Bear something in mind, Alberto is in full defense mode right now. Chances of him telling the Full truth? In his own mind, yes.

Am I the only one who feels like this is all a Goucher-orchestrated sting operation?

I have no doubt Salazar was a giant d*ck to Mary and all of his athletes - he's from the old guard where that behavior wasn't questioned.

But there's a part of me that feels like Goucher and co. have been pushing other NOP athletes to come forward, and I feel like Cain is just a pawn in their scheme. Goucher can voice all of her "stories" that are "much worse" than Mary's.

I have no doubt he did some questionable things that are unacceptable (in addition to the doping). But the timing and orchestration of all of this, along with the new found relevancy ex-NOP athletes are finding coming forward, definitely leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Does the author care to say what Alberto did not share with him?

Its not just the autobiography. Its also Alberto's own two part defense of the allegations. A lot of which wasn't refuted.

Of course an autobiography is going to have a positive spin to it. You are not going to hear about Alberto willing to hollow out a book to sneak Rupp's medication through customs.

So again, my challenge still stands.

dfa wrote:

Think about it, is it not possible?

2/10

Nike Ekin wrote:

The guy is a first class a$$ hole. Everyone knew this long before any story was published.

Do you know him? I met and partied with him once many years ago, when he first started running well at Oregon.

He came across as a decent, fun-loving fellow. He got a little happy at a party and serenaded a pretty girl we knew. Her nickname was Sunshine, and Alberto sang her the John Denver song, "Sunshine On My Shoulders (makes me happy)."

Nothing about him then suggested he was any kind of a$$hole. Just a playful but very hard-working athlete. People can change, of course, but I doubt that he's changed that much.

sleazazar wrote:

Then there are dozens of other examples of him being a terrible excuse for a human being.

I believe Cain!

Feeling free to share...

1989 I was a sophmore in high school. Riding in a car with my coach a longtime nike employee. The coach told myself and another runner who was all american in college, never let Alberto touch you, never take anything from him, Period !!!

It was made very clear to us, what kind of shady person we were dealing with. Everytime I have met Alberto he has been nothing but nice to me. Apearances can be deceiving.

sit899 wrote:

Am I the only one who feels like this is all a Goucher-orchestrated sting operation?

I have no doubt Salazar was a giant d*ck to Mary and all of his athletes - he's from the old guard where that behavior wasn't questioned.

But there's a part of me that feels like Goucher and co. have been pushing other NOP athletes to come forward, and I feel like Cain is just a pawn in their scheme. Goucher can voice all of her "stories" that are "much worse" than Mary's.

I have no doubt he did some questionable things that are unacceptable (in addition to the doping). But the timing and orchestration of all of this, along with the new found relevancy ex-NOP athletes are finding coming forward, definitely leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I do not think Goucher-orchestrated. There are plenty of bitter ex-members who like what they get out of speaking up. Honestly, what Alberto did is questionably ethical, at worst. People do so much worse so regularly.

It makes sense to try to keep the sport fair. He was in the grey zone. Not the red zone.

Telling a female athlete to lose weight to run better times is hardly injecting athletes with steroids.

I am not sure what kind of world these people want. One where professional sports careers are like gym class where no one is responsible for optimizing their career for money?

Mangness wrote:

Honestly, what Alberto did is questionably ethical, at worst.

At least that - that was corroborated several times.

At worst, it's yet another ADRV if the allegation with the diuretics is true.

He is done. He will be as toxic as Art Briles and never be able to coach at a high level again. The optics of ever letting him back are too bad. Nike sells to kids and young people and trashing a high school girl who so many looked up to looks terrible.

He had a great career and threw it away by being a terrible person, just like Lance.

Treat everyone like dirt enough and they will all line up to kick you when you are done. Deservedly too.

A pity that Salazar was not British. We love our successful liars, cheats and suspicious trainers so much that we give them noble titles and put them in charge of everything.

T&F Nut wrote:

I'm sure that some things have been exaggerated, however, given the totality of the circumstances, I believe it can be accurately stated that Salazar has been a disgrace to the sport, with Nike supporting him. To believe that all of these people have conspired to fabricate allegations against Salazar, coupled by the findings of an intensive investigation, leaves little doubt of Salazar's wrongdoing.

You all are victims of mob mentality. Hearing bits and pieces of information, and assuming you know the whole story.

Alberto is not a disgrace to this sport.

True that they have not conspired against him - as that would be a sign of intelligence - but rather, they have cashed in on a trend in our time when our society is obsessed with gossip, and allegations, and hurt feelings.

We value feelings more than results. We all think we are stars when in reality we are just streaky performers with a lot of emotional immaturity.

Cain, Goucher....what can you say about them and their legacy in the sport of distance running?

Should we erect a building at Nike for Kara and Mary?

How will they be remembered in history?