Explosive New York Times article: Mary Cain breaks silence about NOP

You can tell she was overtrained by just watching her races? Without knowledge of her training rather than inferences, suppositions or guesses about it, that seems very tenuous.

Leopardly wrote:

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

2015, 3:56

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Sifan_Hassan_Beijing_2015.jpg

2019, 3:51

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/sifan-hassan-of-netherlands-celebrates-wining-gold-in-the-news-photo-1570300242.jpghttps://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/ks.0Y1HC5NB1DNybt747Sg--~B/aD01MTE7dz03Njg7c209MTthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/85e7c29df8c04127a17a54b1cf0202c8e0a77c89.jpg

While a 4-5s improvement might not sound much for a hobby jogger, on the absolute elite/world-class level it decides between winning a gold medal and ending up in 6th place or so.

Cytomel is an incredibly effective drug.

Kiprop was full of drugs, and looked like a skeleton running 1:43/3:26. So yea, weight matters even in middle-distance races.

YO where did those things go?

Nice to see that the Nike shills are out in force today. Pretty obvious that Alberto leans heavily on PEDs to keep his athletes at an optimal weight. Then, when they start to break, he shifts to abusing TUEs that are signed off on by snake oil salesmen like Dr. Brown.

Anyone who doesn’t get with the program ends up like Cain or Goucher, physically broken and cast out by their sponsor, never able to return to top form.

I'm not saying it is a lie because there is no cut marks....I am just throwing that out there. There is no cut marks from what I can see. Does anyone see any?

If you go back and look at interviews she looks exuberantly happy to be on the team. It's interesting that the NYT did a 6 minute clip for her 4 years or so with NOP.

People that support her can be mad that people are questioning things but I personally don't take anything at face value and neither should you. I just wonder what more there is to this story.

I hope she starts a non-profit for girl athletes and gives back. In other olympic sports like ice skating, gymnastics young girls are put on the scale and nobody says anything about it. Maybe she didnt know what she signed up for.

RRRR wrote:

Leopardly wrote:

YO where did those things go?

Nice to see that the Nike shills are out in force today. Pretty obvious that Alberto leans heavily on PEDs to keep his athletes at an optimal weight. Then, when they start to break, he shifts to abusing TUEs that are signed off on by snake oil salesmen like Dr. Brown.

Anyone who doesn’t get with the program ends up like Cain or Goucher, physically broken and cast out by their sponsor, never able to return to top form.

Nike Shills??? Following what others say in an attempt to sound bright, eh? Yeah sure, people who work at Nike are sitting at their computers posting on this cesspool, why?

Mary was not emotionally prepared and simply gave up due to her overwhelming expectations for herself, Kara was simply over-the-hill and also emotionally unstable and also had an overwhelming ego. They were not physically broken - mentally perhaps.

MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:

Watched the video and I thought she came off really well.

A few points that I found interesting:

1. Did Alberto actually ever PUBLICLY shame Mary's weight? Maybe he did it inside the team, but I don't recall ever seeing (hearing/reading) this actually said.

2. She is 100% correct in saying that the power Nike has in the sport is absurd. How does this change? No idea.

3. If the part about her cutting herself and how here teammates and even coaches knew is true...wow, just wow. That is just disgusting on all levels.

2. The only way things like this ever have changed is by the running public choosing not to support the offenders with their wallets. Losing profit is the only thing they care about.

NOP would never have been supported for this long had it not helped Nike's bottom line. It's about selling shoes. As cheap and tawdry and materialistic and grossly damaging to the planet as that is.

Shelby seems pretty slim and fit. She seems to be handling it pretty well. She seems happy and optimistic. She has been successful. I don't think she has been cutting herself (well she did do some funny things with her hair at one time - but she recovered). What does BTC know that Mary did not?

D$ wrote:

I'm not saying it is a lie because there is no cut marks....I am just throwing that out there. There is no cut marks from what I can see. Does anyone see any?

If you go back and look at interviews she looks exuberantly happy to be on the team. It's interesting that the NYT did a 6 minute clip for her 4 years or so with NOP.

People that support her can be mad that people are questioning things but I personally don't take anything at face value and neither should you. I just wonder what more there is to this story.

I hope she starts a non-profit for girl athletes and gives back. In other olympic sports like ice skating, gymnastics young girls are put on the scale and nobody says anything about it. Maybe she didnt know what she signed up for.

"sports like ice skating and gymnastics young girls are put on the scale and nobody says anything about it"

Dominique Moceanu said something about it. Several of Larry Nassar's victims who were in John Geddert's gym said something about it. Gracie Gold said something about it. Jordan Weiber said something about it. Mattie Larson said something about it.

AGAIN. what is it that you are not getting? Just because women have been abused in sports forever, does NOT make it okay. The system has to change. People "not saying anything about it" does not make the practice acceptable.

I agree I think in other Olympic sports you are told day in and day out what it takes to be at the top. So when you make a high level team you are a bit more mentally prepared. Her parents her the word "Olympics" and said here take my 17 year old daughter. It wasnt smart and some people over at Nike made some bad and unethical decisions. I think its a little extreme for her to blame it entirely on her coach. I think it will turn some people off by how NYT decided to make it a sensationalize it. If its systemic and shes one of the first victims I understand.

I think what annoys me and probably alot of other runners is that they are telling us about some unethical stuff that happened years ago without offering any solutions on how to change the sport. With all the bad stuff happening in T&F right now the last thing they need to do is offer more bad press with no solutions. This is an Olympic year, dont attack the biggest sponsor and not add real solutions to the problems that the athletes are facing.

Ken Goe posted an article but I can't link it because LRC says its spam.

Anyways, he says that she "complains about no female coaches and nutritionists on staff"

I. Can't.

I have nothing to do with Nike, but I think there must be competitor company trolls trying to trash Nike. We know some of the sponsor names that hate Nike (including Rojo). Funny, because these trolls work for some companies that do nothing of significance to advance running in the USA (including Rojo).

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Dril wrote:

Did you even read the transcript or watch the video? One of the allegations is that they WEIGHED in front of everyone. There was also an incident where he berated her for gaining 5 pounds in front of the team after a poor race.

Holy smokes, dont comment if you cant bother to educate yourself on the material.

Have you ever been a female athlete on a male-dominated team?

Read Deena Kastor's book...

I personally also have nothing to do with Nike. I did however grow up in Beaverton and I know people that work at Nike as I went to school with them during my childhood. they arent evil people....Alberto isnt even from Portland or Beaverton or Oregon he is from the NE. From what I have seen Nike/Oregon/Portland/Beaverton is a great place with a great running community. What annoys me is this is making it sound to everyone who see this is that this is some terrible place with a terrible community. Its one coach and one CEO and a few other people who made bad unethical decisions. And when you put out a 6 minute clip instead of a real article with facts people are going to make assumptions. Its not good for the athletics community here or worldwide.

So how do we reconcile Mary Cain's whining account with this ?

https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a20841935/what-its-like-to-be-coached-by-alberto-salazar/

I suspect Mary Cain is trying to blame Alberto for the internal pressure she put on herself and her own failure

Did Mary ever try to return to the NOP in spring of this year?

foinace wrote:

Anyways, he says that she "complains about no female coaches and nutritionists on staff"

I. Can't.

Lol. Yeah you know because Kenyans and Ethiopians they have lots of female coaches, licensed psychiatrists, and certified nutritionists on staff

Maybe if the meets she did gave everyone participation trophies she would have been happier?

ekiN llihS wrote:

RRRR wrote:

Nice to see that the Nike shills are out in force today. Pretty obvious that Alberto leans heavily on PEDs to keep his athletes at an optimal weight. Then, when they start to break, he shifts to abusing TUEs that are signed off on by snake oil salesmen like Dr. Brown.

Anyone who doesn’t get with the program ends up like Cain or Goucher, physically broken and cast out by their sponsor, never able to return to top form.

Nike Shills??? Following what others say in an attempt to sound bright, eh? Yeah sure, people who work at Nike are sitting at their computers posting on this cesspool, why?

You are a moran if you think that Nike does NOT have little trolls out in force tonight. Make no mistake, their marketing troops are well aware of this LRC thread and paying close attention to social media now that Cain's story is out there. Also, if you were a regular on these boards (which you clearly aren't given your unregistered username), you would be well aware that the term 'Nike Shill' is used quite frequently here.

Not sure what Shelby and the Bowerman babes have figured out that NOP has not. However, I will say that the smoke that surrounds the NOP does not follow Schumacher's crew, nor apparently does the bad blood. I'm inclined to believe that their team is competing clean. Salazar is a cancer to the sport, and I'm sure that Cain's accusations will be followed by similar ones from other athletes. Folks like Goucher and Magness have been alluding to undisclosed grey-area issues (L-Carnatine injections, diuretics, thyroid / asthma medication prescriptions and AlSal's experiments with corticosteroids) like these for a long time, and they are finally bubbling to the surface.

Mary Cain should stop complaining and show a lit bit of gratitude to A.S.

Some points.

1. The weight issue. Guess what - when you are world class runner, details matter. Everything counts. 5lbs, almost 2.5 kg overweight, that is a significant weight gain, especially for a distance running female, which needs to be remedied, lest the performance see a decline. Pure logic and tough love, Mary - get over it. The Japanese elites are checked for weight almost every day - it is part of the deal, just like world class cyclists and F1 drivers check everything to do with weight - linked to maximizing performance.

2. Nothing that Mary said was ground breaking. We all know that Al always took things to permissible/legal limits.

3. It is sad that M.C. and K.G. come up with all these things when their careers are over or in decline.

Al Sal takes athletes to a different level. A kind of Marine Boot Camp situation, without the unecessary hazing. When Mo Farah first joined NOP, he was very weak, could barely do more than a couple of chinups, let alone pull ups, and was weak in the core and other areas. Al transformed Mo into what he became - arguably the best Olympic and championship racer that we will ever witness in our lifetime.

M.C.'s arguments have to be looked at in the overall context that she was placed in. The vilification of A.S. is over the top and not proportionate.

I agree. I don't think AlSal or Nike had nefarious intentions. That is bad investment theory. If she burns out or doesn't make it, they put in a lot of time and effort for nothing. But clearly they didn't do things correctly with her. Young people in professional sports don't really mix in general. At the end of the day it is a business unless you are willing to try and do it alone with no sponsors. I have never heard of anyone doing that. Mostly people run well and then want to get sponsors for the money/support. At that point it becomes about return on investment.

In running, to get to those higher levels and see those last little improvements takes and requires so much dedication that most people are not aware of what it takes. If you run 8:45 as a HS 2 miler you might be shocked that to get those last 40 seconds down to really world class requires more effort and sacrifice than you anticipated. With so many HSers who never make it, saying someone will make it to the olympics is silly. How hard is it to make a national team in track and field? It is ridiculously hard and the probability is near 0. German Fernandez was a HS phenom. How many olympics did we see him run? When someone in HS shows tremendous promise and they actually develop into a national champion in college or the pros, that is so rare. You have to not only be prepared mentally and physically, you have to have a lot of things go your way to make it.