Explosive New York Times article: Mary Cain breaks silence about NOP

well i guess this thread will blow up today

ahalkfh wrote:

well i guess this thread will blow up today

Let me fire off some initial thoughts before the trolls and apologists try to spin this story:

I’ll start by saying that as a longtime NOP fan, I thought that Salazars initial ban of 4 years seemed harsh after reading this anything short of a lifetime ban is Professional malfeasance by IAAF and Wada

1. If you think Pete Julian should be a Nike coach after being a paid assistant and accomplice to what amounts to abuse you need to give your head a shake.

2. How has no one publicly spoke up about the public incident she describes at oxy 2015 where Alberto berates her for being ‘overweight’?

3. NOP is a pseudo science project without professionally licensed consultants espousing expertise they do not have.

4. I know there was a massive age difference between Cain and her teammates but how could her teammates of 2+ years standby as this occurred ? Shannon Rowbury and Moser especially.

5. Any athlete who continues to be associated with any legacy of NOP after everything that has been shared deserves whatever reputation they are left with.

I feel like so many of the articles I’ve read about the NOP and the witch hunt over the last few years has a comment from Kara Goucher, Lauren Fleshman or on the others in that group of Nike haters, like Steve Magness. It’s getting old reading the same stuff from them. When are they gunna stop? When Nike gets taken down as a company?

That being said, much of the article isn’t brand new stuff. A lot of the stuff about NOP’s dieting and trying to get as skinny as possible has been talked about by other members of the group or speculated about on these boards.

Blaming men and Nike for everything. Sure.

the article wrote:

A big part of this problem is that women and girls are being forced to meet athletic standards that are based on how men and boys develop.

Salazar may be a lot of things, but there is no way that he misunderstands how female and male athletes differ in their development.

1. Good for you Mary Cain

2. Where were the adults? Other coaches? Teammates?

3. Anyone that chooses to run for anyone associated with NOP is scum.

4. Nike needs to fire Pete as well.

5. Nike is too competitive and it forces them to cross lines. NOP is the biggest scandal in a trading group since.......Athletics West another Nike Group. History will repeat itself again and again.

Wow, I knew she had some skeletons in the closet about her time there. Clearly some stuff went on.

Again, LRC community is two-sided and can't decide what to think.

When people complained about Hassan improving dramatically due to NOP, they used "she lost weight" as argument for her improvement and ability to dominate over 800-HM. Now, they change their mind and start criticizing NOP for trying to enhance performance by losing weight, which is clearly a reason why so many of their athletes improved (Hassan, etc.) or continued to do well by keeping weight at very low, unhealthy levels (Koko).

And that's all still without considering the method they are using - limited portion sizes, cytomel (thyroid hormones in direct T3 form), and a variety of other drugs accelerating metabolism and helping with weight loss / keeping it low.

Either accept the fact that weight loss DID improve the performance of many of their athletes, Hassan being the prime example OR take a stand vs NOP completely and stop cherishing the performances of those whose who are just lucky enough that their bodies don't break down under the NOP methods.

Sure, you could argue that Salazar/NOP methods for losing weight are much safer and more sophisticated now in 2017-2019 compared to 2013 when Cain joined them, but the principle is the same - weight loss = performance enhancing for females, and most if not all of the things (limited portion sizes, cytomel/meds to increase metabolism/lead to weight loss) are NOT doping violations.

Makes me wonder how much of Hasay injuries has to do with Alberto strict weight control.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Again, LRC community is two-sided and can't decide what to think.

Right. It's so weird to think that there might be different people with different opinions here.

Can you point to one person that argued Hassan's improvement was due to her weight loss, and now has changed their mind with Cain?

Eye opening. It sounds like the blame should fall on Alberto's shoulders. Nike isn't free of blame, but at the same time how much are the shoe companies involved in the day to day operation of any of the teams. I am no way saying that Nike shouldn't be blamed, but maybe a better set of guidelines and protocol for all teams to follow.

Remember when it was a sign from God that Alberto called?

How much of Hasay injuries have to do with Alberto strict weight control?

not a nike fan wrote:

So she goes straight from high school to a training group that is focused on winning gold medals and is shocked when they want her to do the things that they believe would help her perform at her peak potential? Why is there outrage over this? Nobody takes responsibility for their own actions these days, it is always somebody else's fault.

Is this because of the #meetoo culture which is currently prevalent in today's society?

not a nike fan wrote:

So she goes straight from high school to a training group that is focused on winning gold medals and is shocked when they want her to do the things that they believe would help her perform at her peak potential? Why is there outrage over this? Nobody takes responsibility for their own actions these days, it is always somebody else's fault.

Gotta agree with this. Any HS phenom these days thinks they are the GOAT and are destined to win Olympic medals in the future - thing is, it very rarely happens no matter what route they go.

Look at Efraimson - she did the opposite of Cain, refused to join teams like NOP and stuck with her HS coach. Did it get her far? No, like Cain she remained on her (ridiculously high, but not Olympic-level) HS level. But at least she doesn't blame her HS coach and says she would have made it had she joined NOP, which is essentially what Cain is saying (that Salazar/NOP "ruined" her and she would have got much further otherwise).

If anything is to blame, it's either maturing much earlier than other women, OR the culture that puts insane amounts of pressure and training on young HS girls to perform already at super-human levels in HS. When you run 1:59/4:04 in HS already, the bar is set SOOO high that it's gonna be incredible tough to further improve and keep up a "steady progression". I'd much rather have her reach 2:03/4:10 in HS BUT allow her to progress training load, volume and keep setting yearly PRs that would increase her chances of making the Olympics in the early-mid 20s than burning out early and quitting the sport.

Probably the most powerful statement I’ve heard on young women in track . Of course, Nike will now unleash its troll army of unregistered posters and smear her endlessly . Stay strong Mary Cain !

Both sides have blame as they always do:

1) On most levels she should have known was she was signing up for. You never trust the review of the person selling the product. Other NOP athletes are the product so they're not good for it. Others who have never run aren't the right people either - they're brainwashed into the hype. She should have sought advice from ex-athletes.

2) In the end she listened to herself or her parents etc but should have done it sooner. It's part of growing up to realize your heroes/things we idolize are just marketing shams.

3) The NOP is really disgusting for pursuing her/forcing this on her at her age. They should have had her in a development program and let her run in college vs sold her on professional stardom.

4) The science-experiment mentality is perverse.

In the end she tried it, and left, and I think she's better for it. I probably would have done the same. It's no different from a student selecting a college for whatever reasons - academics or sports - and finding out the dream you wanted wasn't coming the way you wanted it.

I hope she finds what she's looking for.

Cain also says here that Alberto pushed her to take prescription drugs against IAAF rules, same as is alleged by Kara Goucher.

We’re supposed to believe that Alberto pushed this on several NOP athletes and none of them ever took him up on it? Give me a break.

I don't blame her, she was young and strong. She DID eventually took responsibility by walking away from them after realizing it for the sh*tshow it was.

Considering how long some athletic careers and the ages of many of our athletes are I personally believe taking a 17-18 year old and banging her up before she's even 21 to be a coaching failure. Sounds like Nike's "elite" approach was akin to forcing a square peg into a round hole by any means.