Yes, I am sure they are rabid Noam Chomsky fans right?
Yes, I am sure they are rabid Noam Chomsky fans right?
OK, well guess what this time? Who is raising those young boys to be aggressive, or those young girls to be needlessly fearful? It's their mothers. So should we blame women for raising their kids with this professed (by you) massive difference? No, of course not, although I find your points to be overwrought and filled with unnecessary fear. First, I simply do NOT believe that your eight year old girl was getting cat called when taking out the trash in the morning. Remember too that any man can be mugged and attacked just like your little girl can. It happens every night in every city in the world. Your perceptions of security and safety are just that, perceptions, and it seems to me yours are skewed. The average man in the alley late at night is no safer than the women in the same circumstance, nor is he necessarily stronger or more prepared to defend himself. I know plenty of ass-kicking women and plenty of effete, weak men. Again, you and I, along with everyone else, are never particularly safe nor secure in this world. Make the most of your time, don't train your kids to live with fear, we all need to know that life can kick us in the head no matter what we do, and off we go.
patti wrote:
You're right, we are all absolutely the same. But we aren't treated the same, or raised the same. The way we raise boys and girls is very different, especially among my generation...(boomers. lol) Women are taught from infancy to protect themselves from men.
we're given rape whistles, pepper sprays, mace, we walk to our cars with keys in our fist. We always need a friend, we can't leave a drink alone, and if we leave our drink unattended, we have to throw it away. We can't smile at men too long or wear a low-cut blouse or drink around strangers, because that's "being unsafe," because ANYONE could be a predator ... because when we're assaulted...harrassed...attacked...it always gets asked. What were you wearing? Did you flirt with him? ... did you drink?
My daughter was eight or nine years old when she started getting wolf-whistled and catcalled by men driving by...she couldn't even take out the garbage. She was a little girl. I saw it happen with my own eyes. we get taught very young to be afraid.
We're taught to treat every strange man we interact with like a threat, which ABSOLUTELY hurts men just as much as it hurts women. men aren't animals and they shouldn't be treated like that...all men aren't out to attack women, and yet... every woman is trained to defend themselves from men.
men and women are not raised the same. We are all the same...all equal...with the potential to do good or bad things. but we aren't treated the same, or taught the same lessons as children. THat's the meaning of "toxic" masculinity...not that masculinity os toxic (masculinity is wonderful!!) but because...they're taught things as children that make them angry...make them lonely. gotta MAN UP, be strong, be tough...and show off for your friends.
those men catcalling my daughter were not trying to "hit on" a little girl...they were showing off for their friends...or making themselves feel strong, feel manly.
your experience is not universal. Other people experience life differently...we get treated differently...we get judged differently.
We are all equal, but we are not treated equally. if we pretend t hat we're all the same...with exactly the same lives and experiences...nothing will change. We won't fix inequality...we'll just keep pretending it doesn't exist.
Where are the fathers? Are you parent?
My brothers and I have a habit of bringing a weapon with us when taking out the trash at night, like a small kitchen knife. We grew up in the 80's/90's during the crack epidemic in a large city where being attacked for looking at someone wrong was not uncommon. But I agree with both sides here, 'toxic masculinity' is bad for both genders. Me as a young boy getting jumped on my way home from school is 'toxic masculinity' too.
But turning this into a divisive thing isn't helpful at all. Of course women do deal with a different set of issues, my wife has plenty of crazy stories of creepy men being creepy. We grew up in the same area. But one thing that has stuck out to me is that in raising our 2 boys she just doesn't understand some of the sh!t boys go through as they age and we have gotten into arguments over the kinds of environments we choose to put our kids into. Because I first hand understand the dangers of being a boy growing up in a diverse area where if you stick out at all you are a target. I always felt women had it far easier on a day to day basis, partially because if I had girl with me going through certain neighborhoods we'd actually have a better chance of being left alone. Whereas if I was by myself I was sure to 'get punked' (called names or taunted etc) at the very least. Girls could more easily get favors from strangers or things like that. So yeah, you see articles like this but I never see articles complaining about getting free sh!t from people simply for being a woman.
One problem in all of this is that when bad sh!t happens it is far more amplified than it used to be. Everyone is worried about kid nappings, rape or this or that when these kinds of crime are actually at the lowest levels. It seems people are MORE worried about these things now than when they were more of an issue in the past. Which leads to all kinds of nonsense such as articles like the OP.
For sure I think its horrible women don't feel safe to do things that they think men feel safe doing. But feelings are not always based on reality or real world experiences and sometimes even when they are they cloud our judgement. But I honestly don't see what shaming an entire gender really does in any of this. People who go out doing this kind of sh!t are pieces of sh!t, most of whom are poor or mentally ill. If anything could ever really be done about any of this it is to fix the economic issues and mental health issues. No amount of articles shaming entire groups of people are going to do sh!t.
patti wrote:
Where are the fathers? Are you parent?
read as: man up
elviejo wrote:
patti wrote:
HA!!! You're right! But it doesn't change the fact that we can't/shouldn't run at night, beautiful country roads, or miles trails or when traffic is low.
Ya'know I wish every guy could live one day in the shoes of a woman..(not Caitlin).
The watching, looking out, being careful where you park, learning how to get into your car. Locking the door immediately .ALWAYS letting somebody you know , know where you are and when you are leaving or arriving. Don't look at guys in the eye, being careful what you say.
Safety is not a given.
Finally, a post on this thread I can understand. Really sorry women have to worry about the things you mention, men certainly don't. As a runner I am cognizant of the fact that women have to be on their guard all the time. I never wave or say anything to a single female runner I pass unless they acknowledge me first. I just feel like they don't need the added stress of wondering what my "Howdy" REALLY meant. Nothing a man does out there can be taken at face value. The other day I was running through a highway underpass where homeless hang out (of course, care-free being that I'm a man). There were two guys down there and they seemed fine and paid me no heed as I passed by. As I'm coming out I see a woman runner going in by herself. I thought to myself - DANGER - and thought well, maybe I should turn around and run back until she was through. But can't do that - I'd be a stalker. Instead I stopped and pretended I needed to tie my shoe until she had gone completely through the underpass without any incident. Then I carried on with my run. I certainly don't think a lone female runner should go through there. These situations are tough. Carry on, sister!
Honestly I really don't think people are this fragile, or at least I personally don't treat them that way. When I pass women while I am out running I typically smile or say 'Hi' and if they are scared because of that well, I am sorry, though I am sure the feeling passes as soon as they notice I just keep going. Interestingly I never receive a bad reaction from it, and I am often stopped by women asking for directions while out on the trails. My impression is that the far majority of people are no so scared of every man passing them by. Maybe its my demeanor or the way I look idk, I am usually pretty good at reading body language and so I will say I have approached people that obviously are not interested in even acknowledging others around them.
One thing I find interesting about your anecdote though, is what we flipped it. What if that lady you saw go by was a guy? Would you have even given a second thought to that guys safety? Would you have acted the same? What if it was a guy and he went by and then was suddenly attacked? Would have you done anything about it? Just curious.
Must be a joke wrote:
.. wrote:
But an honest difference I have seen is that liberals are generally more open to the idea that they might be wrong and that other people's experiences are relevant to their understanding of the world. Conservatives tend to put more (or all) emphasis on their own experiences, and they get more upset/defensive when anyone challenges their personal worldview.
-999999/10
+1 to -999999
In my experience conservatives tend to hold fast to their norms and don’t try to proselytize others to conform. They are protective of their POV, so long as others leave them alone. Liberals tend to try and force others to conform with their world views.
I'm a women and I run in the dark because the earliest of am hours is the only time I can run. The worst I've encountered was that darn pothole that basically sprained my foot and took me out for a long time. Other things like drivers not paying attn (I pay great attention and stop when necessary), ICEY conditions, and random things not seen on the ground that can hurt you (wet leaves, pine cones etc). The occasional wild animal (coyotes). YES I wear a head lamp but sometimes you miss these things. The only time I've been harassed by male was in the middle of the day on a busy trail with a high school teammate . He was jerking off and unfortunately for us it was the first time we ever saw a man's private area and in that manner. Our parents got to explain the "weird, slimy stuff." We were stunned and sickened. Do I let my fears of predators take away my am runs away? No, I won't give them that.
dude from the hood wrote:
elviejo wrote:
Finally, a post on this thread I can understand. Really sorry women have to worry about the things you mention, men certainly don't. As a runner I am cognizant of the fact that women have to be on their guard all the time. I never wave or say anything to a single female runner I pass unless they acknowledge me first. I just feel like they don't need the added stress of wondering what my "Howdy" REALLY meant. Nothing a man does out there can be taken at face value. The other day I was running through a highway underpass where homeless hang out (of course, care-free being that I'm a man). There were two guys down there and they seemed fine and paid me no heed as I passed by. As I'm coming out I see a woman runner going in by herself. I thought to myself - DANGER - and thought well, maybe I should turn around and run back until she was through. But can't do that - I'd be a stalker. Instead I stopped and pretended I needed to tie my shoe until she had gone completely through the underpass without any incident. Then I carried on with my run. I certainly don't think a lone female runner should go through there. These situations are tough. Carry on, sister!
Honestly I really don't think people are this fragile, or at least I personally don't treat them that way. When I pass women while I am out running I typically smile or say 'Hi' and if they are scared because of that well, I am sorry, though I am sure the feeling passes as soon as they notice I just keep going. Interestingly I never receive a bad reaction from it, and I am often stopped by women asking for directions while out on the trails. My impression is that the far majority of people are no so scared of every man passing them by. Maybe its my demeanor or the way I look idk, I am usually pretty good at reading body language and so I will say I have approached people that obviously are not interested in even acknowledging others around them.
One thing I find interesting about your anecdote though, is what we flipped it. What if that lady you saw go by was a guy? Would you have even given a second thought to that guys safety? Would you have acted the same? What if it was a guy and he went by and then was suddenly attacked? Would have you done anything about it? Just curious.
If it was a guy (and I see guys go down there all the time, including myself!) I wouldn't have given it a second thought unless the homeless dudes down there were acting aggressively when I as coming through. In that case a warning would be in order. I definitely wouldn't have thought about turning around nor stopping to wait till he made it through. Though, if I saw him getting assaulted or confronted I definitely would have helped. A highway underpass with a couple homeless guys is most definitely someplace you probably don't want to venture through alone if you're a woman. Even a man carrying his wallet and phone. But a man RUNNING through there? No wallet, no phone, nothing of value. There's nothing they want from you so it's generally safe.
It is tough but I always figure women don't want to be bothered when they're out running.
dadsfadsfdasfdsafdas wrote:
Co-Flounder wrote:
I know a female runner who touristed Saudi Arabia and visited Mecca by herself. She had no problems at all. I think it all depends upon how much of a victim you want to set yourself up to be.
I left my car door unlocked and it wasn't stolen. No need to lock my car right? We are talking low probability events. One could be 10x more dangerous than the other and the odd of it showing up in 1 trial are low.
I was responding to someone who didn’t think it possible for women to be in public without the accompaniment of a man (father, husband or brother) in Saudi Arabia.
Traveling to several different cities including Mecca can be difficult for women, but it can be done.
And what do we call this?
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/tennis-players-shoving-match-handshake
fisky wrote:
When I got RW in the mail Saturday, the cover heading jumped out at me... "84% of women runners have been harassed, assaulted, or even murdered while running. THIS. MUST. STOP. Here's how/ P. 41.
This seems like completely irresponsible fear-mongering in an effort to sell magazines. To lump the words murder or assault in with this 84% is ridiculous. Fewer women get murdered while running than get struck by lighting and although I don't know assault figures I would assume it is low as well.
As far as the 84% harrassed I'm not sure what they qualified harassment, did they ever do so? I'm pretty sure most guys who have ever run in short shorts get catcalls and sexual comments from morons and ex frat boys who never grew up. If that's the standard they use that's pretty low.
Don't get me wrong, I think women have it much worse in this area. I run most days alone at 4:30or so in the morning. I am completely comfortable doing this but I would never suggest a female do this. There are certain things that are a greater risk for females than they are males. Reality is many of those although they may be reduced will never be eliminated. But I definitely take offense to lump in the .000001% of women murdered while running with the 83.X% who have been harassed but never assaulted or murdered. That's a completely irresponsible use of statistics to further your agenda.
i was on my way home just now and a WOMAN of all people not to mention a WHITE woman didn't pull over for an ambulance and IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS a second one wouldn't pull over for a fire truck
when will we put an end to this subtle domestic terrorism?
fisky wrote:
I think it's really a disservice to women to write so many pages and omit so much potentially life-saving information. Such as...
1. Maintain situational awareness. (There's actually a technique to this. An entire article should have been written on how to maintain situational awareness. It's routinely taught in most firearms classes.)
2. Run with someone else if at all possible.
3. Don't just read about self-defense. Take a self-defense course. Ask around and find a good instructor. Invite some of your friends to go with you. Reading about some self-defense move is not going to hack it should you ever need to react in a split second.
4. Consider proactive self-defense weapons and take a course to learn how to use it/them. Learn the pros and cons of pepper spray, stun guns, knives, and handguns. (I recognize that 9 out of 10 women would never consider such weapons, but it is a huge disservice to those that MIGHT consider them to not even mention them as options.)
5. For goodness sake, don't play the victim card like the author of the toxic masculinity article. Take charge of your own safety as much as possible.
In short, this was like a lot of RW's articles... big on promise, but superficial and having multiple errors of omission.
Oh, gawd- yet another ammosexual trying to gunsplain personal safety. America, 'Merica, 'Merricka...
if you are alpha you gotta dominate
of course the servile betas of the world don't like it
too bad, losers
patti wrote:
You're right, we are all absolutely the same. But we aren't treated the same, or raised the same. The way we raise boys and girls is very different, especially among my generation...(boomers. lol) Women are taught from infancy to protect themselves from men.
we're given rape whistles, pepper sprays, mace, we walk to our cars with keys in our fist. We always need a friend, we can't leave a drink alone, and if we leave our drink unattended, we have to throw it away. We can't smile at men too long or wear a low-cut blouse or drink around strangers, because that's "being unsafe," because ANYONE could be a predator ... because when we're assaulted...harrassed...attacked...it always gets asked. What were you wearing? Did you flirt with him? ... did you drink?
My daughter was eight or nine years old when she started getting wolf-whistled and catcalled by men driving by...she couldn't even take out the garbage. She was a little girl. I saw it happen with my own eyes. we get taught very young to be afraid.
We're taught to treat every strange man we interact with like a threat, which ABSOLUTELY hurts men just as much as it hurts women. men aren't animals and they shouldn't be treated like that...all men aren't out to attack women, and yet... every woman is trained to defend themselves from men.
men and women are not raised the same. We are all the same...all equal...with the potential to do good or bad things. but we aren't treated the same, or taught the same lessons as children. THat's the meaning of "toxic" masculinity...not that masculinity os toxic (masculinity is wonderful!!) but because...they're taught things as children that make them angry...make them lonely. gotta MAN UP, be strong, be tough...and show off for your friends.
those men catcalling my daughter were not trying to "hit on" a little girl...they were showing off for their friends...or making themselves feel strong, feel manly.
your experience is not universal. Other people experience life differently...we get treated differently...we get judged differently.
We are all equal, but we are not treated equally. if we pretend t hat we're all the same...with exactly the same lives and experiences...nothing will change. We won't fix inequality...we'll just keep pretending it doesn't exist.
OMG. It must really suck to be you.
WhyRegisterHere? wrote:
Missed my point entirely, but that's OK. Get OUT of your tribal bubble, dope. Tribalism and intersectionalism and identitarianism are all poison. Your points are dripping that poison.
1) Make no points except rants about 'tribalism'
2) Get big mad
3) Use big words
4) get bigger mad
I can't wait to see part 5!
Travelers who are women can often do as they please, within limits, in Saudi. Residents and Saudis, no way in hell. Read up a bit. A Euro or American traveler or expat isn't required to cover, isn't required to be accompanied by a family member/husband, and doesn't have to attend to curfew and gender separation in mosque. Saudis and residents do have to adhere to all of these things. The kingdom is just now loosening 'some' restrictions on driving and being out alone unaccompanied. I cannot imagine that I'll see a Saudi woman running the streets of Jeddah, and certainly not uncovered, in the next ten years.
Co-Flounder wrote:
I was responding to someone who didn’t think it possible for women to be in public without the accompaniment of a man (father, husband or brother) in Saudi Arabia.
Traveling to several different cities including Mecca can be difficult for women, but it can be done.
Are fathers any more or less responsible for raising aggressive boys than their mothers? And yes. We are all human beings, with FAR more similarity in experience and destiny than difference, on whatever level you want to consider. Don't raise your daughter to be different, separate, certainly not to live in fear.
patti wrote:
Where are the fathers? Are you parent?
You win Super Woke award of the day, big fella! Do you ever make points on LRC? I thought not.
Harambe wrote:
WhyRegisterHere? wrote:
Missed my point entirely, but that's OK. Get OUT of your tribal bubble, dope. Tribalism and intersectionalism and identitarianism are all poison. Your points are dripping that poison.
1) Make no points except rants about 'tribalism'
2) Get big mad
3) Use big words
4) get bigger mad
I can't wait to see part 5!
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
Guys between age of 45 and 55 do you think about death or does it seem far away
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
adizero Road to Records with Yomif Kejelcha, Agnes Ngetich, Hobbs Kessler & many more is Saturday
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06