The Science of Sport Podcast on the Vaporfly

Short summary -

the IAAF is not going to ban the vaporfly. it may change rules to get rid of all restrictions aside from motors or mechanical assistance.

They talk about one proposal to limit the stack height of racing shoes to 31mm which is the exact dimension of the original vaporfly 4%. then companies can do whatever they want within those 31mm under your foot. springs...plates...foams...gels...whatever

They also say elite runners likely get a bigger gain than regular joes, because the shoe gives bigger gains with shorter ground contact times.

And many other things. Do listen.

The Science of Sport guys are morans

bro science wrote:

The Science of Sport guys are morans

So you're just another slow jogger clinging to his Vaporflies, I see.

Sounds like none of those guys have ever run a serious day in their lives. Sound like armchair QBs..

Wildhorse wrote:

bro science wrote:

The Science of Sport guys are morans

So you're just another slow jogger clinging to his Vaporflies, I see.

No I just think they really know nothing about most sports including running.

From what I've seen from results of 3:00 marathon types, the VFs help those folks more than the top elites. Kipchoge could run 2:05 in freaking Army boots.

jklk wrote:

Sounds like none of those guys have ever run a serious day in their lives. Sound like armchair QBs..

Aren't we all? This guy could be me.

bro science wrote:

Wildhorse wrote:

So you're just another slow jogger clinging to his Vaporflies, I see.

No I just think they really know nothing about most sports including running.

From what I've seen from results of 3:00 marathon types, the VFs help those folks more than the top elites. Kipchoge could run 2:05 in freaking Army boots.

Kipchoge never broke 2:04' until running in Vaporfly prototypes.

It's not their opinion, it's backed by scientific studies.

The problem with a lot of 2:40'+ runners is they had no business racing in the Adios or Streak, or any traditional racing flat. Nit enough cushioning for them, legs would get trashed mid-race. The Vaporfly are better cushioned, so there. Most of those guys would race 26.2 faster in the Pegasus than the Streak.

Wildhorse wrote:

The problem with a lot of 2:40'+ runners is they had no business racing in the Adios or Streak, or any traditional racing flat. Nit enough cushioning for them, legs would get trashed mid-race. The Vaporfly are better cushioned, so there. Most of those guys would race 26.2 faster in the Pegasus than the Streak.

I was kind of on your side reading through this thread, but this might be the stupidest thing I've read today. Sure, 2:40 isn't elite, but if you're running just over 6 minute miles for 26.2, you've put some work in (people don't just roll out of bed and run sub 3. You guys spend so much time in your echo chamber of elite running numbers, that you lose all perspective on reality.) Throwing on a pair of Streaks isn't going to undo all of the conditioning your legs went through, and ideally if you aren't an idiot, you would have run in the Streaks/Adios to get your legs used to them prior to racing anyway. If you're at those numbers, flats are faster than trainers. And don't try to play all gatekeeper with racing shoes, like anyone can't go wear regular flats if they want to. Acting like those poor 2:40+ people need Vaporfly cushioning to protect their poor little babby legs, or they'll never finish a marathon. Shut up dude. You're a condescending sh*t head.

You guys realize that Kipchoge ran 12:40 and 26:40 right? In spikes. Not in Vaporflys. Also, 59:20 in non-VF.

Dude, I'm one of those people who'd run faster in the Pegasus or the Brooks Launch than a true marathon flat. It's not just a matter of conditioning, it's a matter of ground forces and impact, of weight, of running mechanics, etc.

Gatekeeper of what? Just seen all those morans running close to 4 hours in Streak 6s who can't walk straight for a week afterwards. 3 hour marathoners aren't that much fitter.

It was an interesting podcast. Even without this podcast and the studies which support the claims, it's obvious by the new marathon achievements that the shoe does provide a rather significant increase in efficiency. I wish the IAAF would impose a stack height requirement and just be done with it.

I worked for Nike golf right out of college and was blown away by the constraints on golf club design. Pretty much the only thing that could be meaningfully manipulated was the position of the CG.

Increases in efficiency shouldn't be so disruptive that it distorts the physiological capabilities of the top 5 in a marathon. In other words, if a shoe is possibly worth 1-3 minutes, everyone should wearing them.

Wildhorse wrote:

morans

Did you just out yourself as a troll? Anyone who spells 'moron' with an 'a' immediately loses all credibility.

There's just so much to unpack here. We aren't talking 4 hours marathoners, yeah that person probably shouldn't wear flats, but we're talking 2:40+ which is the number you threw out, yes that person can get away with flats when they've trained for it. And to say there isn't much difference in fitness between 4 hours and 3 hours. The mind just boggles. Again, you've spent so much time down the rabbit hole of elite running, that you've become deluded and out of touch with reality.

Sure. That must be it.

I was kind of with you - I like the Brooks Launch for marathons - until that lest sentence. 4-hour marathoners are mid-pack at your local marathon (and every other marathon out there). Sub-3 hour is a winning time or podium finish at a lot of small marathons. It's the same difference as sub-19 5K vs. sub-26 5K. There's a whole world of difference in fitness.

Wildhorse wrote:

running close to 4 hours... 3 hour marathoners aren't that much fitter.

Please tell me you aren't being serious, lmao.

You have no clue what you're talking about man. Roughly speaking, a 4 hour marathon is about 9 minute pace and a 3 hour marathon is about 6:50. As a hobby jogger who's made the journey from 4 hours to sub-3 over the last few years, there is a world of difference between the two. Get off the internet and never pretend to speak as if you know anything about fitness again.

I was exagerating to make a point. Of course it takes a greater deal of fitness to run one hour faster, but I still think flats are detrimental to a lot of people running barely sub-3.