Marathon Training Plan Recommendations (Daniels v. Pfitzinger v. Hansons v. Sage BQ v. Runner's World Advance v. other

Hey thanks for looking at the Sage Running Training plan!

Couple thoughts:

1. Doing workouts on a 160M indoor track (esp if crowded) sounds horrible. I'd think even a treadmill or maybe a possible road/sidewalk for speed workouts would be better.

2. Higher average weekly mileage (i.e at lest 55-60 average) for months ahed of the marathon is generally going to help a lot (as well as focusing on a few hard long runs with marathon specific pace changes). Peaks of 70-80 is very good volume.

3. Maybe look into doing a focus on 10km and half marathon races over 2-3 months, then taking a little break, and then doing a full on marathon cycle. Getting that half marathon PR down and working on Threshold pace more will give you a good stimulus and nail down what might be an accurate marathon goal pace to start specific training off of.

Me confused. Didn't you basically copy what you learned from the Hanson's? Their training and workouts are the first of their kind, so isn't that kinda stealing? Just curious.

Thank you for the advice! Much appreciated. The above poster is not me and is being a jerk.

Wait, what? I'm the OP, please stop and I want Sage to answer my stealing training methods question.

Your 5k PR and current PR spread is so large that I think you'd be able to hit 3:15 by just running 70-80 mpw in an unstructured way. Throw in some miles faster than goal marathon pace but keep most of them 45-90s slower.

justbeinghonest wrote:

Your 5k PR and current PR spread is so large that I think you'd be able to hit 3:15 by just running 70-80 mpw in an unstructured way. Throw in some miles faster than goal marathon pace but keep most of them 45-90s slower.

Thanks man! I love ya brother!

Good post, thank you, Sage.

I don’t mean for this to come off in a negative/mean spirited kind of way, but why would I choose one of your plans over one of the others mentioned? Are there certain things you do different than others that may work better for certain types of runners?

And again, I don’t want to sound negative - I’m a big fan of you’re and appreciate all of your posts here and other content you provide online!

Some dude with way too much time on his hands created a handy comparison of many of the marathon programs: https://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans

Register your name idiot, otherwise this forum is a free for all

Fiagpole wrote:

Puppy Madness wrote:

Thank you for the advice! Much appreciated. The above poster is not me and is being a jerk.

Register your name idiot, otherwise this forum is a free for all

I agree, I'm about to register mine today.

sub_3_is_the_goal wrote:

Some dude with way too much time on his hands created a handy comparison of many of the marathon programs:

https://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans

Awesome, thank you!!!

Puppy Madness wrote:

sub_3_is_the_goal wrote:

Some dude with way too much time on his hands created a handy comparison of many of the marathon programs:

https://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans

Awesome, thank you!!!

Actually it's just so so at best, but I'm glad for any response at this point.

I may just follow the Hanson's as "What's the deal with 20 mile long runs?"

Puppy Madness wrote:

I may just follow the Hanson's as "What's the deal with 20 mile long runs?"

Good one! Pun Madness!

I've used Pfitz for 2:4X marathons as a 40+ runner, in particular the 80 mpw program. I also have some experience with RW, Hansons, Daniels, and Hal Higdon. I think Pfitz is the least fussy and gets results.

I also live in the NW and run at night. Lots of winter miles at 39 degrees, dark, damp...

Tips:

Run your workouts on the road. Adjust as necessary with weather, but it's rare that there're ever >2 days with icy roads...and even then, that usually happens at most twice per year. But maybe it's worse where you are. Still, if you have street lights, no problem.

I also like to run more of the long runs as long tempos or steady/closer to MP pace. This serves as a strong workout and falls on the weekends/daylight/sunshine. And, these runs fit well into the Pfitz plan since it's not so crazy with complicated workouts.

But there's no getting around that it's tough to continually head out for 90 mins or more every day in the dark and cold.

Not sure why you think Daniels is complicated or would lead to over-training. I am currently following a Daniels plan about your same mileage (from the 2nd edition of the book I think). Only 2 workouts per week means I get 2 or 3 easy/recovery days in between every workout (typically run my workouts on Wed and Sun every week). Some of the workouts are tough for sure but with plenty of recovery in between I do not feel over-trained at all. I like how I can be flexible all other days of the week to get in my desired mileage. I like the plan quite a bit and feel like I am making a lot of improvements. But I cannot compare it to the other plans you listed because I do not have any experience with them.

daniels plan wrote:

Not sure why you think Daniels is complicated or would lead to over-training. I am currently following a Daniels plan about your same mileage (from the 2nd edition of the book I think). Only 2 workouts per week means I get 2 or 3 easy/recovery days in between every workout (typically run my workouts on Wed and Sun every week). Some of the workouts are tough for sure but with plenty of recovery in between I do not feel over-trained at all. I like how I can be flexible all other days of the week to get in my desired mileage. I like the plan quite a bit and feel like I am making a lot of improvements. But I cannot compare it to the other plans you listed because I do not have any experience with them.

Didn't say anything about overtraining. But the schedule is more complicated than Pfitz....not overly complicated, just a bit more, it seems to me. Pfitz is incredibly simple in design. I've been tempted to do a cycle with Daniels, just haven't yet.

Too me it looks like these are way too many miles for a 3:15 Marathon.

I am sure all training plans are great. As always, the key is to adapt them to YOUR personal real life scenario balancing work, family and running. The weather is a huge factor too.

Just pick the training plan which seem to make the most sense for YOU and adapt it when needed.

Don't freak out when you can't hit the miles you are supposed to because of other commitments. Make sure you eat and sleep well too.

I learned a lot at Hansons. I learned a lot under Rojo and JK. Rojo coached me to my first OTQ in college at the age of 21 when I ran 2:21 (After a 2:22 debut). I learned a lot reading Pfitzinger and Daniels and Canova. Not that running PRs and performances has anything to do directly with coaching, but I've also been top 20 at both Boston and Chicago and have experienced a lot of these types of races. I've learned from coaching (directly and indirectly) many to sub 3 hr marathons. Hansons usually didn't structure their long runs very much (at least when I ran under them as an ODP). It was 20-miles maybe with miles 15-18 at MP pace. Our Sage Running advanced marathon plans go up to (and sometimes over 22-miles). I think sometimes those extra few miles on the Long Run are beneficial. We also don't do "simulators" or long tempos (i.e. 15 miles at MP), but higher quality and higher velocity stuff instead. We base things more off of exercise science principles. When I ran at Hansons it just happened to be something like 3 x 3 miles at "10 sec /mile faster than MP" which just happened to be close to LT for me at the time. But a lot of marathon coaches do sessions like 3 x 5km LT or something. A lot of coaches do 1km repeats or mile repeats at 10km-15km race pace (CV) etc. Pfitzinger has always been a huge influence. Also Canova. Also Tinman. I like Daniels for 5km-10km Traiing but not so much his marathon plans. Of course every athlete is a bit different so it depends on a lot of lifestyle variables, response to certain training workout patterns etc. I can't pick the plan for you, although if Sandi and design one we have a certain market in mind. It's the sequence of the workouts and the blend of workouts (or within workouts) that gives each program it's unique angle. One can find success with all of these plans obviously. Some may be better than others at certain times of your life though.