Olivia Theis

Agreed. Where is this girl. She was a STAR. Where also is Anne Forsyth their #1 freshmen phenom from last year? Is she gone?

Mike McGuire talked about redshirting both Forsyth and Larson (Michigan's other top 7 Freshman runner from last year) before the season started. I don't know whether this was due to summer injuries or other reasons (Forsyth competed fairly late into the summer on the track). They are still both at Michigan.

I also wondered about Theis...

Jaden Theis, Olivia's younger sister, just signed with Michigan. It's stated in one release that Jaden will be joining her sister at Michigan. The 2019-2020 track roster lists Olivia Theis (although the cross country roster did not). Seems like the University knew that she would be redshirted (injury?) for CC, and just didn't bother listing her.

Michigan should be stacked the next few years if they can stay healthy with Vanderlende, Forsyth, Theis, Larson, and the Hart/Theis signings this year.

Any news on Dudek?

bobinvirginia wrote:

Jaden Theis, Olivia's younger sister, just signed with Michigan. It's stated in one release that Jaden will be joining her sister at Michigan. The 2019-2020 track roster lists Olivia Theis (although the cross country roster did not). Seems like the University knew that she would be redshirted (injury?) for CC, and just didn't bother listing her.

Michigan should be stacked the next few years if they can stay healthy with Vanderlende, Forsyth, Theis, Larson, and the Hart/Theis signings this year.

Any news on Dudek?

Don't forget Gall who was borderline varsity this year but ended up redshirting. 57/2:09/4:49/10:31 so has some wheels and some range.

Michigan really dominating the recruiting trail right now. Could be a podium team in the next few years. Really like Amber Gall. Think she could be special.

Relatedly, I've never understood why more elite female recruits don't consider Michigan State. They have results on par with Michigan over the last 15 years or so, but they don't seem to get anywhere near the same talent? Is that because they recruit differently or do they not get considered by top MW runners? Their results certainly speak for themselves.

Yooper123 wrote:

Michigan really dominating the recruiting trail right now. Could be a podium team in the next few years. Really like Amber Gall. Think she could be special.

Relatedly, I've never understood why more elite female recruits don't consider Michigan State. They have results on par with Michigan over the last 15 years or so, but they don't seem to get anywhere near the same talent? Is that because they recruit differently or do they not get considered by top MW runners? Their results certainly speak for themselves.

Because Michigan is better academically? How many D1 runners become actual pros? Makes perfect sense they choose whichever school gives them the best education. Also Ann Arbor is an amazing college town and the study experience is better.

MSU is still a fantastic school and they got great XC/track teams, but it's similar to Michigan and 2nd in many (not all) aspects.

The question is not between Michigan and MSU, it's between Michigan, and schools that can offer something else, like good weather for example in Stanford/UCLA or altitude in Colorado.

MSU has been very strong on the women's side (something like 17 straight NCAA births). As the previous poster mentioned, Michigan has a better academic reputation which definitely helps (the women's CC team at Michigan has had the highest GPA for any sports team at Michigan for multiple years). The other big advantage for Michigan is the new indoor facility---probably one of the top 3 facilities in the USA. Hopefully this helps them recruit against the warmer climate schools. I also wonder if Drenth's role on both the women's and men's team affects his ability to recruit. McGuire can focus solely on the women. I agree...two very strong women's programs in Michigan.

I would say only until recently like the last 2-4 years has UM out recruited MSU. MSU was going crazy a few years ago when they got Fuller, Maggie Farrell, India Johnson, Holly Bullough over the course of a few years along with a lot of other girls too. As things happen everywhere they didn't all completely pan out but no program can say that happens. I'd agree the facilities do play a factor too. MSU did get a huge haul of top Michigan girls, Noelle Adrians, Lauren Cleary, Judy Rector, Lauren Freeland and more. Some of those are going to pan out I would imagine.

Agree 2 outstanding programs in the State of Michigan with great coaches.

Agree with everything that you wrote. Katie Osika is also at MSU despite the fact that her sister had a very successful career at UofM (and now a successful Pro career under McGuire's coaching).

bobinvirginia wrote:

MSU has been very strong on the women's side (something like 17 straight NCAA births). As the previous poster mentioned, Michigan has a better academic reputation which definitely helps (the women's CC team at Michigan has had the highest GPA for any sports team at Michigan for multiple years). The other big advantage for Michigan is the new indoor facility---probably one of the top 3 facilities in the USA. Hopefully this helps them recruit against the warmer climate schools. I also wonder if Drenth's role on both the women's and men's team affects his ability to recruit. McGuire can focus solely on the women. I agree...two very strong women's programs in Michigan.

I am not what you mean regarding Drenth's role affecting his ability to recruit. Are you saying he does not have as much time to recruit women because he also has to spend time recruiting men? Regarding recruiting women, Coach Senakiewich has a major role in communicating with those being recruited. Some other Power5 teams also have women on the coaching staff spend a lot of time recruiting athletes for the women's team while the head coach/director may be a man who will speak with recruits too but may not be the primary contact during the process. I assume some male assistants or other may also be active in recruiting for the mens' teams

I know parents and athletes at both Michigan State and Michigan and have nothing but good things to say about both even though I will root for State over Michigan.

Glad to hear Theis is still in it. I was hoping that was the case when her younger sister signed. This team should be stacked next year if everyone stays healthy.

With respect the the MSU vs. Michigan recruiting, I think I'd have to disagree that Michigan has historically had better recruits. On paper, MSU's recruits should have been kicking butt for a few years but just couldn't pull it together until this year. This year's redshirt Senior recruit class includes Amber Way, Annie Fuller, and Jeralyn Poe, all of whom were top recruits. The redshirt Juniors include Sarah Kettel, Lindsey Rudden, and Holly Bullough; again, all were top recruits. Kettel had a breakthrough race at Regionals but Rudden has had some injuries and Bullough straight up quit. Other highly sought after recruits include India Johnson, Maggie Farrell, Lauren Cleary, and Karena Duffy. Cleary and Duffy are still young, but Johnson and Farrell made an immediate impact. I pull for Michigan, but this State squad is strong and should never be counted out.

With any team with talent a big question is will all stay healthy. 2014 was a good season for the team while in 2015 they had some injuries that had a big negative impact on the team. If we look at the records for their top talent you will likely see gaps in competition and slower seasons. This occurs when they have a season ending injury or when they have an injury in one season or during the summer that affects the next season. Every runner you listed has had one or more injuries or illnesses that was likely season ending. It happens on all teams. I know it happens on the Michigan team too as I follow them as well as Michigan State. Bullough was one of the top contributors to the cross country team when she was healthy for the 2016 season. If you knew the details why Bullough dropped off the roster you might not say she straight up quit. That sounds like she quit running without a reason which was not the case. I don't fault anyone for changing course and going on with life if they have gone through many setbacks.

You left off a few names. Adrians finished just in front of Johnson and Kettel and just behind Magness this season at Panorama Farms. I don't know what happened at Nuttycombe or the B1G. I think Adrians and Perez can make impacts next year. I did not see times for Rector or Freeland at the Spartan Invite. Freeland ran the EMU Fall Classic. I am less confident of Freeland and Rector making impacts by next year. It may take them longer. Osika and Kendell ran fast times in EMU Fall Classic. They could make impacts next fall.

The below article discusses the injury issues that the team had at the beginning of the 2015 season:

While I appreciate your attention to detail, you've either ignored or missed the point of my post, which was to dispute the assertion that Michigan has better recruiting. The people posting on this board understand injury, illness and strife, and those of the MSU squad have been quite well publicized from Fuller's struggles with knee surgery to Poe's appendix removal. I didn't knock anyone's efforts or accomplishments, I noted that State's recruitment efforts have been historically strong. As to Bullough, she struggled with stress fractures as a high schooler, which can usually be attributed to either overtraining, nutritional deficits (which can be medically caused), physiological abnormalities, or a combination thereof. I said she straight up quit to avoid a prolonged discussion about the why. I wish the MSU squad nothing but luck this weekend. Actually, I wish them lucky enough to finish one spot behind the Maize and Blue ...

Both squads seem to have a lot of young talent. I'd think they both are on track to be in the top 10 of XC the next few years. As Cleary and Adrians improve they should be strong runners for MSU. Rector and Freeland have both dealt with some injuries in HS but if they can get a solid base of training under them they can be beasts. MSU going to have a ton of depth and as you can see when kids stick in their program they end up getting solid, some of the girls running at nationals weren't huge names but more solid recruits who have improved a ton.

As mentioned above Gall for UM had a strong red shirt season and should continue to improve, she improved slowly but steadily throughout HS and finished with a 4:49 and 2:09 in her last 2 races. I think there is video of the 2:09 and she split something like 65-64 so that shows there is more there. Exciting to see what she can do in track.

Then for UM to add Hart and Theis gives them some more studs. Plus there are a ton of other girls there going to fighting for spots.

Haven't heard what MSU has for girls in the current class but know they'll get some strong ones.

MGoBlue wrote:

While I appreciate your attention to detail, you've either ignored or missed the point of my post, which was to dispute the assertion that Michigan has better recruiting. The people posting on this board understand injury, illness and strife, and those of the MSU squad have been quite well publicized from Fuller's struggles with knee surgery to Poe's appendix removal. I didn't knock anyone's efforts or accomplishments, I noted that State's recruitment efforts have been historically strong. As to Bullough, . I said she straight up quit to avoid a prolonged discussion about the why. I wish the MSU squad nothing but luck this weekend. Actually, I wish them lucky enough to finish one spot behind the Maize and Blue ...

If you had just listed Michigan State recruits I probably would not have responded. Since you went beyond recruiting to discuss the performance of the runners while on the team and that one quit I felt the need to reply. My response was not just a direct, private message to just you but also a response for the general audience who may be reading our posts who have very little idea of who these runners are or their history and background. Few here in the message boards probably remember Bullough's impact to the team back in 2016 except for those few of us in the message boards that follow Michigan and Michigan State. Saying someone flat out quit may cause those that know little to think she was a quitter which I don't think is fair given what those close to the team told me. Few here probably recall the injuries suffered by current collegiate runners while in high school.

If the causes of bone reactions and fractures is so well know and understood then I don't understand why they are still so common such as one or two women per class on a team suffering from them each year. I don't think the causes are simple in most causes as just saying the athlete has an eating disorder or the coach is over training them. Even over training for one athlete is not the same as for another. They are some women who can handle running 80 to 90 miles a week while others I don't think can handle 50. Some can go for long training runs while others that may be top national runners have never gone more than say 10 miles. They may not be able to handle longer runs.

I am not trying to argue with you. I wish Michigan luck likewise to your wishing luck for State. I have seen some runners on both teams compete since they were in high school and want to see them all reach their goals. I am not even interested in arguing one teams recruiting class is better than the others. I would rather see a Michigan HS runner who is not going to State to choose to go to Michigan rather than Wisconsin, Ohio State, Penn State or others in the conference. The only thing I care about really is seeing all athletes stay healthy so they can go about achieving their goals. I think Michigan and Michigan State have some talented young runners on their womens teams that I look forward to seeing compete in the coming years.