Ran 3:24 for first marathon but left calf/ankle buckled a few times at mile 25. Is this normal?

Maybe slow by LRC standards, but fast in the real world.

If you postpone the cramping to mile 27 you’ll be fine.

When I ran my first marathon, my calves cramped so bad I went from running a 1:38 first half to finishing over 4 hours with a 15 minute mile in there and many over 13 minutes... so it could be worse. I started buckling at mile 14 and had to walk most of the back half. I should have just walked off the course.

I suspect for me it was a lack of training at marathon pace/not enough mileage - looking at my training log, I only averaged 35 mpw and had to skip a two long runs. I only had one run at MP which was over 10 miles.

Other possibilities might be shoe selection? I ran in the Adios which may not be enough support. I haven’t ran another marathon since then, and I still have troubles with calves cramping at then end of half marathons, but I only usually slow a couple seconds per mile. Nothing like that marathon.

All in all, great time even with the issues! Congrats.

Thank you! I was running im the shoes I used this past summer (600 miles) so I will know next time to switch them sooner.

Nice job on your first marathon. Your pacing was pretty good. Maybe not fast by LR standards (assuming you're a fairly young male), but a great start.

I think cramping calves in long races is quite a common problem. I often cramp at mile 11-12 of a half-marathon although in training I regularly run 15-16 miles with no problems. In my most recent go at the marathon I started cramping around mile 18 after going out way too fast. And even fast guys have this problem. Smoove, a low 2:30's guy who used to post on here regularly, has written about his terrible problems with calf cramps in the final miles of marathons. I guess the problem is not enough long runs at race pace, but doing 25-mile training runs at marathon pace isn't really in the cards for most of us...

Congratulations, jecht. I don't have more to add on the calf/ankle issue, but I'm glad you're happy. That's a really solid first marathon. Looks like you have the right attitude: Discover and learn what you can when things don't quite go according to plan, but still enjoy the fruits of your efforts. Nice job!

Thanks AM! I'm 35, so hoping I can get faster and maybe age into a Boston category as I get older and faster too. :) But, that said, my dream goal is to break 3 at some point.

I was fine throughout and only had a few side stitches, but I breathed in and that helped. A group of women blew by me at the end of the race and they still had enough energy to talk to each other. I was under the impression by Mile 24 everyone is nearly spent but if you have enough energy to chat you didn't go hard enough. :p

I also wanted to know why some race trackers in these big races have odd distances.

7k

15k

13.1 (obvious)

16 mile

20 mile (I get that)

Thanks man!

The pacing was weird. I went out slow and eased into pace. I felt strong (7:30 pace midway through) but then after mile 20 it started to slow down and creeped back to 8:11 or so :(

I had done 3 20s and a 21, so maybe should I have done up to a 24-mile training run?

jecht wrote:

I had done 3 20s and a 21, so maybe should I have done up to a 24-mile training run?

It's always seemed weird to me that most training plans have you doing no more than 20-21 mile training runs for a marathon. Back when I was young and fast, my rule of thumb used to be that I should do a couple of runs that would take at least the same length of time as the marathon. So I regularly went up to 23-ish miles in training. Doing 24-mile training runs sounds like a good idea to me, as long as you do it slowly enough that it doesn't completely do you in.

Thanks AM! Also jjst still shocked people blew by me at the end and they were still able to talk normally.

i wouldn't say it's normal, but can be expected. With the lack of marathon experience, your body will get very fatigued, and your form will deteriorate. Good job on first marathon by the way!

I’ve gotten this too my first two marathons out. My legs locked up really hard in my first marathon and slowed me to about 8-8:30 pace. I had been running under 7s. The second one I just did yesterday I got the same sensation just not as bad and I kept it together and only slowed 10 seconds per mile (6:50-6:55) though it felt much worse.

From what it sounds like, it’s pretty common especially if you’re not doing a ton of long runs or high mileage. I ran a chunk of 2 hour+ long runs and more mileage than the first one, but clearly wasn’t able to completely get past it. My issues come early ~ right in mile 21. Everything feels like it will cramp at any moment.

jecht wrote:

Thanks man!

The pacing was weird. I went out slow and eased into pace. I felt strong (7:30 pace midway through) but then after mile 20 it started to slow down and creeped back to 8:11 or so :(

I had done 3 20s and a 21, so maybe should I have done up to a 24-mile training run?

This is a solid group of long runs. What was your average mpw? Also, I think the distance can get you if you push a little in the middle. I think that got me a bit yesterday too.

LOL, man.

we must have been dead nuts even through that race, i finished the half at 1:41 (only ran the half, not the full). were you near or with the 3:30 pace group? i trailed them by far the whole time, then passed them around mile 9 or 10, basically by the Nationwide Hospital.

+1 to this, but what you “should” do varies by person and time. I personally recover better from long easy runs than many people do and need more recovery from max VO2 workouts, even when I’m very confident that I’m not overdoing reps and pace. And in terms of what you’ve experienced in your training recently for this race, as far as I’ve seen and read, it takes most people time to adapt to increased training to the point of handling overall weekly volume and long run volume so that they can finish the last 10K of a marathon strong. Very few marathoners have that happen the first time out. You had a good result, but it’s incredibly hard for us hobby joggers to nail a result that’s off-the-charts good.

I strongly agree with amkelly’s comment about “slow enough.” I spent years running my long training runs too fast simply because I could. But I didn’t need to do that to reap the physiological benefits (in my limited knowledge, regarding capillaries, mitochondria, glycogen storage). Then I slowed 2/3 to 3/4 of my long runs down by about 20-30 seconds per mile and did the other ones as fast finish long runs, still with the first part of each run very easy. For me, in the last several years, every long training run of at least 20 miles has been easy (except for a few with “stretch my legs” finishes for a mile or two at the end). And when I slowed down like that, I was able to run my fast workouts faster, handle greater overall weekly mileage without injury, and finish marathons stronger. My fast finish runs generally range from 12 to 19 miles, usually with 6-12 miles between 30k and marathon pace for the fast parts. Until I started doing more of my miles slower, I couldn’t even imagine running that many faster pace miles as part of a long run. And in most training cycles when I’ve done this, my easy pace has increased slowly but steadily (and usually unevenly) while my faster training/racing paces have done the same. I’m guessing that if your easy miles average between 45 and 90 seconds slower than your marathon pace (and as many on these boards are quick to remind you, feel easy), you’ll be set.

And for now, of course, enjoy a successful first marathon, give yourself adequate recovery time, and enjoy the process as you get back at it. You’ve been crushing it so far; you’ll get there.

I was able to run 21 without a problem in training and was fine here until Mile 24, so I'm ok with it.

I positive-splitted though :(

But it wasn't too bad. 1:40:xx and 1:44:07 or so on the back end). At least the second half was still sub-8:00/mi. pace (1:44:52 is exactly 8:00/mi.)

I started off with the 3:10 group for about 400m just to get past the throngs of people, deliberately slowed to 3:30 but stayed in front of them after mile 2.

Going out slow REALLY helped me on the back end. I didn't start aching at mile 20-21 like I thought I would as a newbie.

Some girl in a green CRC singlet I passed at mile 7, then she passed me at mile 21. Humbling.

Seeing people talk in a group as they passed me was also humbling at the end because it made me realize I need to up my aerobic capacity.

I'm going to go even slower on my LRs.

I was going too fast from '17-18 when doing my half training and never hit more than 38 mpw and still ran 1:39. But I knew I had to slow down to get my volume up.

Early on I was at 40 mpw but got it to 50-55 and two weeks at 60-61, then a taper.

1230 miles over 32 weeks, so my average was only 38 miles over that time. But from June to October I was at 45 or greater.

I had a kidney stone removed 9/20 so I lost 4 days of running there and an 18-miler I would have done otherwise.

After 1 day my legs recovered and are fine now. How much time do people allow before running another one? I thought about Indy Monumental.

jecht wrote:

After 1 day my legs recovered and are fine now. How much time do people allow before running another one? I thought about Indy Monumental.

That's in two weeks. Way too soon. Your legs should not be recovered after 1 day...but you know that.