June Eastwood Update

Maggie Bornstein wrote:

He really is sticking out like a sore thumb:

https://i.imgur.com/v34ojRR.png

I feel so sorry for the girls who are forced to shower with this freak.

It's crazy that there are really people out there who believe that a couple of pills will somehow turn him into a woman.

Men, leave women's sports alone!

SDSU Aztec wrote:

IDontGetIt. wrote:

You did not answer the question.

I don't think it's normal at all, but I believe it's not a choice. If one of my kids told me they wanted to transgender, I would be upset about it as they would be living a difficult life, but I would have to accept it.

So if your kids say they feel like ice cream for dinner instead of fruits and vegetables do you let them have ice cream? Its not a choice that they feel that way.

Fair isnt equal wrote:

https://md.milesplit.com/athletes/6443284

Take a look at Maryland high school star Evelyn Parts. Last year Evelyn ran the boys county 3200m in 10:07 for 6th place. This year Evelyn is the fastest "girl" in Maryland. Evelyn has only entered JV races this year but has run 17:12 for 5k. Will Evelyn enter Footlocker or NXR and dominate? Time will tell.

She is in HS so she might, or might not, be taking hormone treatment. If she's not, then it's not applicable to this thread..vv

It's crazy that there are really people out there who believe that a couple of pills will somehow turn him into a woman.

Men, leave women's sports alone![/quote]

+1

Let women at the HS, college and professional level. If there are trans women/men that want to compete, then do so on clubs teams and in open races. If women say no, then this should be the final resolution. At the end of the day a race is a tacit agreement from all its participants. So keep it that way. Does anyone honestly think during the women's 800 this summer in the world championships any of the biological women missed Semenya, Wambui, etc?

well actually wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I don't think it's normal at all, but I believe it's not a choice. If one of my kids told me they wanted to transgender, I would be upset about it as they would be living a difficult life, but I would have to accept it.

So if your kids say they feel like ice cream for dinner instead of fruits and vegetables do you let them have ice cream? Its not a choice that they feel that way.

I bow to your logic.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

IDOn'tGetIT wrote:

So you accept that gender and sexual identity abuse exists and that's ok. but let's don't go there. You are not ready.

Let's stick with the first question and I'll check back in two years and see if you can wrap your mind around what is happening here.

Q.

Why do you want to normalize gender and sexual identity abuse at the risk of making it more invisible than it is?

Huh? I didn't say that I wanted to normalize it. Do you think I'm going to go on TV and tell everyone how wonderful it would be if their children transgendered?

You guys don't want to accept it's existence so what are you going to do about it besides post on LR?

You are putting words in people's mouths wrt to not accepting transgenderism , lumping all posters who disagree with you in one group? Not cool.

Not being affected because it's not personal? You were wrong to put it that way too.

Also , why is posting on LR not a valid contribution? As good as talking about it in a coffee shop anyway. There are lurkers , so perhaps it is better than a quiet coffee shop conversation. In real life people stick to a like minded flock anyway. You are posting on these threads as much as anyone?

I am thinking of trying to encouraging someone appropriate to do the research and write a book on sexual and gender identity abuse and family and cultural contributions and responses , or lack of responses.

MikeMach1977 wrote:

The saddest part of all is your inability to let people be whatever they choose to be. You're trying to take a step back and make some broad brush strokes here. Again, the topic here should be how to equalize the playing field, not everyone's closed-minded opinions about things that don't affect them. Get with the times. Pretending to be a man when you don't feel like one is more of a "mental illness" than becoming a woman when you feel like one.

I am just curious, what field do you or anyone who proclaims to know anything about this work in? I work primarily in the health fields as a biostatistician. So, when people refer to "studies", they are referring to a world I frequent. In the health fields transgenderism and gender dysphoria fall into the realm of neurology/neuroscience and psychiatry among other fields. These fields lag behind in what is known and what instruments we use to validate conditions. Read the DSM1 to DSM5. See how little we know and how it has evolved. I doubt many people here have delved deep into these books. At the minimum we can say it is a minimally understood condition whose diagnostic conditions share likenesses with many other conditions like clinical depression, anxiety, etc. I was a part of a study were clinical depression was diagnosed with a self-assessed survey. That is a soft endpoint with huge potential for measurement error. Many of the objective studies use to talk about these conditions don't really do much better in terms of methodology. So asserting people can "know what their condition is" or simply "define themselves" without any individual or societal recourse is short-sighted. It overshoots the science of what is actually known by people who study these conditions for a living. People undergoing this certainly can live how they choose, however when it affects others in work, life, and sport society has to start defining guidelines based on best available knowledge, not simply moral outrage or SJ mobs. Morality should have a part to play in policy, however it should be from all parties involved, not simply the self professed victim class.[/quote]

Didn't refer to any studies, you've been waiting to post this paragraph the entire thread I bet. You're also completely ignoring the point I made about the NCAA. I've repeatedly said this isn't about whether it's good or bad or whatever you're trying to mansplain, it's about how to equalize the playing field.

Maggie Bornstein wrote:

He really is sticking out like a sore thumb:

https://i.imgur.com/v34ojRR.png

I feel so sorry for the girls who are forced to shower with this freak.

She’s going bald. Rogaine for men.

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Even if you think that it isn't fair from a competitive standpoint, you should be ashamed of yourselves for how you are treating a fellow human being in this thread. I can only hope she's smart enough to stay off Letsrun so she doesn't have to see you bigoted paternalistic morons call her names and demean her.

Didn't refer to any studies, you've been waiting to post this paragraph the entire thread I bet. You're also completely ignoring the point I made about the NCAA. I've repeatedly said this isn't about whether it's good or bad or whatever you're trying to mansplain, it's about how to equalize the playing field.[/quote]

Just read peoples posts and noted they are entirely based on no methodology, just their moral outrage. You say mansplain, which explains a lot about your attitude. No one, not even someone with an apt point is going to convince you. That is precisely the problem. Without knowing a lot, you insert opinion into things. What is an "even" playing field? As some women have pointed out, why are you ceding that trans women by default belong in the women's field to begin with? In your mind, that is already settled. So you can't possibly let facts or a broader perspective come in. I care very little about "winning" discussions here, however as most have pointed out, the integrity of women's sports does matter. That might mean that an even playing field might not involve trans women at all.

FemaleRunnr wrote:

Maggie Bornstein wrote:

He really is sticking out like a sore thumb:

https://i.imgur.com/v34ojRR.png

I feel so sorry for the girls who are forced to shower with this freak.

It's crazy that there are really people out there who believe that a couple of pills will somehow turn him into a woman.

Men, leave women's sports alone!

Nice to see he's going bald at a young age.

Creaky Bones wrote:

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Even if you think that it isn't fair from a competitive standpoint, you should be ashamed of yourselves for how you are treating a fellow human being in this thread. I can only hope she's smart enough to stay off Letsrun so she doesn't have to see you bigoted paternalistic morons call her names and demean her.

That's telling them. If you can't change their minds change their hearts. (I've copyrighted that saying.)

Creaky Bones wrote:

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Even if you think that it isn't fair from a competitive standpoint, you should be ashamed of yourselves for how you are treating a fellow human being in this thread. I can only hope she's smart enough to stay off Letsrun so she doesn't have to see you bigoted paternalistic morons call her names and demean her.

Perhaps, but crazy behavior that is condoned by some segments of society is open to ridicule.

Creaky Bones wrote:

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Even if you think that it isn't fair from a competitive standpoint, you should be ashamed of yourselves for how you are treating a fellow human being in this thread. I can only hope she's smart enough to stay off Letsrun so she doesn't have to see you bigoted paternalistic morons call her names and demean her.

I think it is immensely more cruel to obscure or withhold the truth from this man. It is apparent that he is a man despite whatever mutilations and other modifications he has had. Playing along with this charade, however deeply it is held, is a far, far, far greater cruelty.

MikeMach1977 wrote:

Didn't refer to any studies, you've been waiting to post this paragraph the entire thread I bet. You're also completely ignoring the point I made about the NCAA. I've repeatedly said this isn't about whether it's good or bad or whatever you're trying to mansplain, it's about how to equalize the playing field.

Just read peoples posts and noted they are entirely based on no methodology, just their moral outrage. You say mansplain, which explains a lot about your attitude. No one, not even someone with an apt point is going to convince you. That is precisely the problem. Without knowing a lot, you insert opinion into things. What is an "even" playing field? As some women have pointed out, why are you ceding that trans women by default belong in the women's field to begin with? In your mind, that is already settled. So you can't possibly let facts or a broader perspective come in. I care very little about "winning" discussions here, however as most have pointed out, the integrity of women's sports does matter. That might mean that an even playing field might not involve trans women at all.[/quote]

Oh please, mansplain to me more about how you're not mansplaining! I'm so dumb and clueless! I just don't understand!

RichardSimmons wrote:

Creaky Bones wrote:

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Even if you think that it isn't fair from a competitive standpoint, you should be ashamed of yourselves for how you are treating a fellow human being in this thread. I can only hope she's smart enough to stay off Letsrun so she doesn't have to see you bigoted paternalistic morons call her names and demean her.

That's telling them. If you can't change their minds change their hearts. (I've copyrighted that saying.)

This may be true as most arguments seem to be moral, but forget about all the women who are getting screwed over in the process. At the end of the day, I certainly hope some amicable solution can be found, however for the "progressive" minded folks who already seem to have all the medical answers and can skip right to the moral ones, I hope they pause. There is most likely a series of underlying mental issues. If those could be figured out, I haven't heard anyone talk about the potential health issues to trans men/women by using hormones or hormone blockers to get there. Running and competition is supposed to be a healthy endeavor. Competition should not be at the expense of someone's long-term health. For menopausal women giving them hormone treatment ended up increasing the risk of breast cancer. What are the effects of introducing exogenous hormones into a person over a sustained period of time? Do we even know that? If we go down a path where we aren't also thinking about health, I worry that this might lead to other issues down the road for trans people, outside of the mental issues that have already been documented. That would be a true tragedy.

You guys think that accepting their existence is being a cheerleader for transgender athletes. I believe not accepting their existence is bigotry.

If you owned a company, would you hire a transgender woman if she was better qualified than the other applicants?

Oh please, mansplain to me more about how you're not mansplaining! I'm so dumb and clueless! I just don't understand![/quote]

Yes, I honestly do think you are comparatively dumb and clueless. However, you can wallow in your ignorance. That is probably the sweetest justice. Enjoy posting many posts, under different times, while still contributing very little.

Truth is less cruel wrote:

Creaky Bones wrote:

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Even if you think that it isn't fair from a competitive standpoint, you should be ashamed of yourselves for how you are treating a fellow human being in this thread. I can only hope she's smart enough to stay off Letsrun so she doesn't have to see you bigoted paternalistic morons call her names and demean her.

I think it is immensely more cruel to obscure or withhold the truth from this man. It is apparent that he is a man despite whatever mutilations and other modifications he has had. Playing along with this charade, however deeply it is held, is a far, far, far greater cruelty.

June understands that she was born with a twig & berries. There is no charade. That's your misconception because you can't comprehend the complexity of the situation. Either way, someone doesn't have to be just like you in order to deserve your respect.

Your post is a pretty good example of paternalism. Thinking you know best for everyone. "People should be forced to be a certain way, not forcing them is a disservice!" (despite having zero understanding or compassion regarding the issue at all). The suicide rates of closeted or bullied LGBTQ+ youth should probably cause you to reevaluate you worldview a bit, perhaps realize that your way is not the best for everyone, but instead you and others like you will just stay on here calling her a freak or whatever until...I don't know what. She stops running competitively? She stays in her dorm and doesn't offend your sensibilities? Maybe that would make you guys chipper!

Delete your account, man.