June Eastwood Update

Crowd Sorcerer wrote:

https://fairplayforwomen.com/thighstrength/

This study is laughable. The transwomen (male to female) lost no strength despite testosterone levels falling by about 95%. Sounds to me like testosterone shouldn’t be banned since it obviously does nothing ?

Sounds like males shouldn't race females

June Eastwood's 5k PR wouldn't get him to west prelims in track, but yesterday she finished 1 second behind a girl who was 18th in the 10k and made it in the 5k as well. For me to believe this is an equal playing field I would say she should only be around 16:30ish or so in the 5k. I'm all for supporting transitions like these but I think to be on the safe side they should be on stronger hormonal treatments or at least need to be regularly tested to make sure they continue to use it after becoming eligible.

Again, I'm happy she gets to become her true self, but we need to really make sure that when they do convert the NCAA is keeping it as fair as possible.

ShilohDoesntCare wrote:

Crowd Sorcerer wrote:

https://fairplayforwomen.com/thighstrength/

This study is laughable. The transwomen (male to female) lost no strength despite testosterone levels falling by about 95%. Sounds to me like testosterone shouldn’t be banned since it obviously does nothing ?

Sounds like males shouldn't race females

Fair Play for Women has a reputation of being transphobic so I would take any information provided by them with scepticism.

ShilohDoesntCare wrote:

Anyone arguing in favor of Eastwood when it comes to sport is wrong. No discussion allowed. To engage in discourse is akin to giving a measure of legitimacy to the opposition and they have no foothold here. June places much higher in the women's division than Jonathan ever did as a male. This is XC. The times are irrelevant only the place matters and in placing it is clear. June places much higher than Jonathan. This situation is wrong.

June places higher than she previously did after two years of training and maturity. If you note in the results a male runner placing directly in front of June in 2017 made an almost identical improvement in placing over the same two years.

I certainly wouldn’t bet my house on June having no inherent advantage over biological males, but there is a very legitimate discussion to be had.

Djdjsjsjsjdhd wrote:

June places higher than she previously did after two years of training and maturity. If you note in the results a male runner placing directly in front of June in 2017 made an almost identical improvement in placing over the same two years.

I certainly wouldn’t bet my house on June having no inherent advantage over biological males, but there is a very legitimate discussion to be had.

This is where the times do matter. If June were still competing with men, he'd be well out of the top tier, and he wouldn't be making his team a contender.

But if you think that he's giving his full effort, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you real cheap. It's obvious what he's doing.

I think people are also missing the larger point here. The best male athletes in the world aren't the ones who are going to wake up one morning feeling like a woman (as if they have the first clue what that is), and decide to compete with the women. It's the substandard men who are going to compete against the world's best women. When they don't win every outing, some people will foolishly declare, "See! No advantage!" At every level, whether it's a local 5k or the World Championships, it will be men who either don't have the talent or don't have to put in the work who will be beating out the women who deserve it.

Short vid of Bronco Invite posted by SJSU.

Eastwood is easy to pick out at race start (2:25-2:29) and then shadowing the leaders (2:35-2:41).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H49HkyItOrg

tally wrote:

Short vid of Bronco Invite posted by SJSU.

Eastwood is easy to pick out at race start (2:25-2:29) and then shadowing the leaders (2:35-2:41).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H49HkyItOrg

This video says it all. What a farce.

Iwixhxjz wrote:

June Eastwood's 5k PR wouldn't get him to west prelims in track, but yesterday she finished 1 second behind a girl who was 18th in the 10k and made it in the 5k as well. For me to believe this is an equal playing field I would say she should only be around 16:30ish or so in the 5k. I'm all for supporting transitions like these but I think to be on the safe side they should be on stronger hormonal treatments or at least need to be regularly tested to make sure they continue to use it after becoming eligible.

Again, I'm happy she gets to become her true self, but we need to really make sure that when they do convert the NCAA is keeping it as fair as possible.

Wait! Do you believe that when a presumably anatomically and physiologically unambiguously male human being amputates his genitals and poisons himself with hormones to simulate femininity, he is becoming his true self?

People keep talking about this 'guy who made similar improvement'

What examples do we have of females making that level of improvement by running most likely less miles as a 'female' and probably non-ideal training during the year long transition period?

Would we allow a women to compete her senior year if we knew she had been taking testosterone her whole life up until two years before her senior season? why?

A trans athlete who was previously male should not compete against women. A group of people love to throw out words like transphobia when dealing with issues like this. Using name calling to make you forget basic human biology. I am all for making trans people more inclusive in society. Like anything in life limits exist. One of the limitations should be forgoing athletic competition unless you want to compete in the category you fell in before your transition. Someone lost a scholarship opportunity id June is on scholarship. Someone was pushed back another place in all the races June competes in. Someone will just miss a conference award, maybe a spot to nationals, maybe a place at nationals. Life is not fair things will never be equal... so why are we making it even harder for woman in sports. You just don’t see that many examples of a women transition to be a male and going to compete against men. Why, likely because taking a few hormones doesn’t completely change who you really are. So they are not able to compete at the equivalent level as a man. People get depressed about all sorts of things. Some they can not change, your outlook on life will keep you happy. Not a new car, not transitioning to the opposite sex and so on. But hey let’s stay divided seems to be working great in this country. Left and right can’t even talk to each other with out name calling, threats or potential for violence. I think a lot of us want similar things for our time on earth. Your politicians do a great job making sure you don’t learn to compromise with people who share different opinions. Good luck in life June, I just think it’s unfair that you compete against women even after taking hormones.

There is absolutely no evidence to date, to support that substandard men can transgender and compete against the world's best women in distance running.

June, who ran what be world class times for woman as male, is the first test of the rules. UM is not Stanford or Oregon, and it's possible she won't place in the top 50 at the NCAAs, if she even qualifies at all.

It doesn't seem likely, but maybe June will place high at the NCAA championships or even win, but we'll have to wait and see. The accusations of shadowing or sandbagging are just speculation at this point.

If a slow athlete like CeCe Telfer can transition and then win a national title, surely it goes without saying that a very good male athlete could do some ridiculous stuff.

trollism wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

There is absolutely no evidence to date, to support that substandard men can transgender and compete against the world's best women in distance running.

June, who ran what be world class times for woman as male, is the first test of the rules. UM is not Stanford or Oregon, and it's possible she won't place in the top 50 at the NCAAs, if she even qualifies at all.

It doesn't seem likely, but maybe June will place high at the NCAA championships or even win, but we'll have to wait and see. The accusations of shadowing or sandbagging are just speculation at this point.

If a slow athlete like CeCe Telfer can transition and then win a national title, surely it goes without saying that a very good male athlete could do some ridiculous stuff.

This thread is about a D-1 distance runner and not a D-2 hurdler.

Yes, and you and I don't get to decide whether she is right or not.

Yes, and you and I don't get to decide whether she is right or not.[/quote]

The problem with your logic implies June knows what is right or can diagnose what is going on with him/her. So by your logic, whenever a person who has some mental issue presents themselves to the medical community, they should simply seek out their own judgement as no one can tell them objectively what is right or wrong? Problem solved then. June is on her way to easy street.

MikeMach1977 wrote:

Yes, and you and I don't get to decide whether she is right or not.

The problem with your logic implies June knows what is right or can diagnose what is going on with him/her. So by your logic, whenever a person who has some mental issue presents themselves to the medical community, they should simply seek out their own judgement as no one can tell them objectively what is right or wrong? Problem solved then. June is on her way to easy street.[/quote]

I don't know what you're trying to say here or if you think this is profound, but we don't get to decide what gender she is. I'd say June has a better idea on what's right for her development than us. If you've read everything I've written in this thread, this isn't about her. The NCAA needs to find the proper way to treat and regulate people who are interested in making this transition, because right now it does not seem to yield the same runner, performance-wise. This discussion shouldn't be about whether or not you think somebody in transition has mental issues, it should be about how the NCAA and the rest of the sport world can make this an even playing field for the athletes who make a change.

Side note: Although I said this isn't about June alone, I think it's a little disheartening that some of you posters feel like you have the right to decide what another person chooses to do with their life. Again, this isn't about people trying to find happiness in whatever way they choose, this is about how we can make sure that the playing field is equal for all. I agree these days sometimes it seems a little wild to see the different people in this world we live in, but these people have always been here, and this is the first time in history that those people feel safe enough to come out and talk about it.

Iwixhxjz wrote:

Side note: Although I said this isn't about June alone, I think it's a little disheartening that some of you posters feel like you have the right to decide what another person chooses to do with their life. Again, this isn't about people trying to find happiness in whatever way they choose, this is about how we can make sure that the playing field is equal for all. I agree these days sometimes it seems a little wild to see the different people in this world we live in, but these people have always been here, and this is the first time in history that those people feel safe enough to come out and talk about it.

What are you talking about? Most people here don't care what Eastwood does. We just know that Eastwood should not be allowed to run in the women's division of races. Period.

The issue of whether transgender females can compete as women was litigated over 40 years ago so you might as well rant about gay marriage.

"These People" have a particular mal- adaption , mental illness , and they live in a time where they can feel like Rock Stars for

coming out. So, I don't agree with hate and universal condemnation. But the pendulum is definitely not anywhere near middle ground at this point.

I have a friend whose daughter just started Identifying as a boy. Mental illness and broken family in the mix with one of the new wave of middle class fringe liberal (ex)-housewife moms. The mom couldn't be more thrilled. They are Rocking facebook like they are some kind of heroes. You can't tell me this is going to people like June's heads, I have seen video's where June's demeanor exhibits all this rock star/center of attention element. The thing is common sense liberals/Democrats are terrified to say a darn thing.