Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 9/15/19

M - 60+, 5'9.5" and 140

Goals for what's left of 2019 - USATF masters 15K and Club XC, maybe a destination half in Nov., TBD.

Currently WMA lead in 2 events, but 3.5 months to go this year. Will see if those hold. Thinking about 2-3 bucket list races next year but prioritizing this block and next 6 weeks of training.

M - 5.9

T - 7.1

W - 6.8 AM with 6X 3:30 reps, 1 min+ recovery. Did not feel good at this workout, and effort was closer to threshold than what I was trying to do; 3.7 PM

Th - 3.7, 5.5 double, still felt off (plan had been to do 8+ in one workout but I was washed out by 30 minutes so split it)

F - Off, listening to my body. Nothing there.

S - 15.9 with 2X 2 mile at sub marathon pace (MP-10?), felt better day off did some good.

Su - 7.7 and 3.7

60 - about par for miles, sub par for pace and how I feel.

Sounds like a tougher than usual day in Philadelphia, but good work to those out there.

drcrusher wrote:

M: off, flying home.

drc: Sounds like my kind of run.

M, 22, 5'8/168, 62min 10mi (2018)/1:20:40 HM (2018), getting back into endurance sports after burning out in collegiate triathlon about 18 months ago. Spent that time jogging 20-30mpw on average, and hitting the weight room hard.

My week:

M: PM - 90min lift

T: PM - 9mi with 4x3:00 fast on 3:00 easy, building effort 1-4, then 4x1:00 very fast on 2:00 jogging (this was on the rolling/hilly/dirt farm road that I do most of my running on). Super hot/humid outside (90/75), hit the 3:00 intervals around 5:40-50 pace and the 1:00 was

Post got cut off, forgot about the rule with "less than" signs.

M, 22, 5'8/168, 62min 10mi (2018)/1:20:40 HM (2018), getting back into endurance sports after burning out in collegiate triathlon about 18 months ago. Spent that time jogging 20-30mpw on average, and hitting the weight room hard.

My week:

M: PM - 90min lift

T: PM - 9mi with 4x3:00 fast on 3:00 easy, building effort 1-4, then 4x1:00 very fast on 2:00 jogging (this was on the rolling/hilly/dirt farm road that I do most of my running on). Super hot/humid outside (90/75), hit the 3:00 intervals around 5:40-50 pace and the 1:00 was under 5:20 pace. Happy with it as I do this on RPE and don't check pace until afterwards.

W: PM - 90min trainer ride with 3x(12x30sec HARD @ 120%+/30sec easy) - Had really good legs for this, which was shocking after a quality run the day before. Power numbers were equal to or maybe even better than I would’ve done back when I was training the bike hard, and I’ve only been riding 2-3x/week for 60-90min (usually a total of 2.5-3h/week, compared to the old 10h/week of cycling in the triathlon days).

TH: AM 10.2 mi easy jog, hottest/most humid day of the week and this was a big time slog, probably paying for the prior two days of good workouts

F: AM 7mi with 4x(3x30/30) on 2:00 easy between sets - Just an easy run with some short pickups to keep my legs moving. PM - 60min lift

S: AM 10.2 mi easy - Had planned to do some easy cycling in the afternoon, ended up watching football and taking a nap instead

S: AM 60min trainer ride with 4x(5min @ 105-110% on 1min easy), straight into 10x(40sec @ 115% on 20sec easy). Plan is a PM 30-60min shakeout jog.

Total: 40-43mi run (depends on how far I go tonight) + 2.5h hard cycling + 2.5h lifting

Planning on trying something new this week and seeing how I like it. Been reading some of the old threads on Bowerman training, Jack Foster, and Jim Spivey (ie, how to run fast on 45-60mpw). Seems like Bowerman and Spivey both had good luck with reducing injuries and getting fast etc by doing short doubles on non-workout days (ie 2x20-40min runs). Going to see how I like that method this week. It may work better for me with my work schedule to do 30-40’ AM/30-40’ PM on non-workout days and allow me to run more miles with less stress. Anyone have experience with a consistent schedule of 4-5 AM/4-5 PM on non-workout days?

Nice guy: Nice one hitting a mileage PB and finishing those Daniels workouts. I always had trouble hitting them.

RRR- Nice 5k in the middle of a heavy week!

JQ- nice mileage and solid workout on satudrday!

Sub6- solid week! Great Tuesday session. Those runs at 8:30+, do you make yourself slow down for those or is that what feels easy on those days?

OR - Interesting to see you’re doing interval training now!! How’s that been impacting your races?

Headed for a run now, will read more later and post my own week :)

Hi all - just posting my week and vanishing (again) -this week, like last, has me balancing a lot of non-running stuff, so social media participation is falling by the wayside. Apologies in advance.

Female, 45, 5'4", 106

PRs 5:25/18:51/38:56/1:02:28/1:24:22/2:57:42

Goal races: 5th Avenue Mile, Columbus Half-Marathon, Indianapolis Monumental Marathon

Goal times: 18:30 for 5K, 1:23:xx for half, sub-2:55 for full

63 miles, 4 hours of pool-running, and 3000 yards of swimming

M: Yoga and 70 minutes of pool-running

T: 12 miles, including a track workout of 4x1200 (splits of 4:30, 4:26, 4:23, 4:20; recoveries of 2:3x-2:4x). Also leg strengthwork and 1250 yards recovery swimming.

W: 8 miles very easy (8:58), yoga, and then 4 miles very easy (8:43).

Th: 1:50 minutes of pool-running and upperbody weights and core.

F: 10.5 miles, including a 4 mile tempo in 25:12 (6:25/6:18/6:17/6:12). Followed with leg strengthwork and 1250 yards recovery swimming.

Sa: 7.5 miles very easy (8:37), upper body strength/core, and 4 miles very easy (8:22) plus drills and uphill strides

Su: 12 miles, mostly easy, but with 5 miles at marathon effort (averaging 6:58) in the middle. Followed with leg strengthwork, 1 hour of pool-running, and 500 yards recovery swimming.

Feel very good and fit overall. I had some concerning stiffness and irritation in my right ankle during Saturday's run - almost certainly the result of overdoing some rehab exercises (that ankle is my bad one - I have stability problems in it and also a tendency for talocrural impingement) and wearing shoes with too small a toe box.

Ankle felt fine on Sunday morning when I woke up, but I was still a bit nervous about it - this is the wrong time in a marathon cycle to get injured. So I modified the 16 progressive out-and-back to 12 out-and-back easy ("let's see how this goes"). About 7 miles into that, the ankle felt decent, so I went ahead and did 5 miles at marathon effort. After that, the ankle still felt good, so I went ahead and did another 4 miles easy to get the mileage in. So that's why the Sunday run is a different format from my norm.

(I added the hour of pool-running because my coach had dialed back the original 20-22 miles progressive to 16, due to weather - I knew he wouldn't mind if I added some pool-running mileage after to supplement the long run.)

M49 5'8" 133lbs

Goal: Chicago Marathon sub 2:40

Had a solid week of training, with 90 miles total. My third week in a row at 90ish, with one more to go.

M: 5 easy

Tues: am: 7 easy, pm: 10 with 4 x 1 mile w/ 60 seconds rest (5:31, 5:43, 5:40, 5:51); planned on six, but cut it short as I went out too hard and it was humid AF

Wed: am: 9 easy, pm: 8 easy

Thurs: 12 easy

Fri: 10 easy

Sat: 9 easy

Sun: 20 total, with 16 mile simulator run. Goal was to run 16 miles at race pace, wearing what I plan to wear on race day. Goal pace is 6:06, and wanted to be within a few seconds of it. Averaged 6:03, with my third of three laps being the fastest. Felt pretty strong today, and am very happy with the result, as it was fairly humid and warmer than I'm expecting for the race.

One more long tempo run this coming Friday, then a 23 miler next Sunday. Then it's taper time. I can't wait.

Will try to post comments later.

Err...that Sunday run ended up being 16 miles total, not 12.

Napper - Wow, 16 at 6:03. I will be shocked if you do not break 2:40. Shocked.

M, 31, 6'1" 155-160

Upcoming: half marathon 10/13

M. 6.4 w/ 5x Cemetary Hill

T. 4 easy

W. am 3.5 easy/pm 6 w/ 7x XC Hill

Th. 5.8 easy

F. 9.7 w/ 5x gravel hill, 1 mile jog, 7x gravel hill

S. 9.7 easy

S. 2.7 easy

Total:47.7

These hill reps are all different combinations of various Lydiard stuff: exaggerated springing up, strong and steady up a long hill, fast and smooth on down hills, occasional windsprints. But not everything every session.

Feeling good, its a workout for sure but I think I'm doing a sustainable amount for another week or two. Tough but not overkill. The exaggerated motions are making my regular easy runs feel really smooth.

Wanted to be 50-55 total miles this week but "real stuff" had priority today which hardly ever happens. No sweat.

Niceguy: Solid week and great tempo work on Mon!

RRR: Volume keeps rolling on! Solid 5K, busting the rust. As long as you are healthy good things will continue to come

Slo: Beast 35K there, ending on the 10K@5:43, awesome stuff

Pappy: I know treadmills are a mixed bag for folks but might be an option to go up some hills without coming back down :P. I love to do that when I'm feeling any issues that are worsened by high impact

Coach Jeff: Great quality -- nice adjustment for the long run and great work getting through the heat!

LancRunner: Nice tempo, always love to see a negative splitting tempo!

Sub 6:00: Great week as always! Going to be interested to hear more about that 5k-10k double, sounds like it'll be a fun day!

OR: Great MP workout on Friday!

Stone: Almost to that 2000km YTD! Smart adjustment by Mrs. Stone, the fitness will roll nicely into CIM!

drcrusher: Gosh, what a horribly organized start! Sounds like a mess. Congrats on the 2nd place!! Hopefully they come through with the prize money...

LebanonHills: Jesus hit by an acorn? Kids playing around? Nice recovery week

RGM: Kudos on your 4-3-2-1 too! Yeah a surprisingly tough structure... I enjoyed it though and will probably try to incorporate more of that type! Solid week and smart adjustment mid-week

Coyote: Solid week, the trend I keep seeing in this thread is days-off/adjusted easy days are always a good deal :)

rucker: Nice week! I'm always a fan of doubles if they work in the schedule -- seems like it'll be worth experienting with that and see how it feels for you

darkwave: Great week and very awesome adjustment for your Sunday run, sounds like all the right smart calls

Napper: Hell yeah! There's that epic simulator. I would say with no hiccups sub 2:40 will be in the bag for you. 20 w/ 16 at pace is some extremely hard stuff. Crushing it!

GB: Nice week filled with all the Lydiard hills! Do you have any go-to visuals for the springing motions?

[quote]Napper wrote:

M49 5'8" 133lbs

Goal: Chicago Marathon sub 2:40

Sun: 20 total, with 16 mile simulator run. Goal was to run 16 miles at race pace, wearing what I plan to wear on race day. Goal pace is 6:06, and wanted to be within a few seconds of it. Averaged 6:03, with my third of three laps being the fastest. Felt pretty strong today, and am very happy with the result, as it was fairly humid and warmer than I'm expecting for the race.

/quote]

Dude, 16 at better than goal pace is no joke. Actually, it suggests to me that you have the wrong goal pace, especially if you’re dealing with weather and throwing that up at the end of a 90 mile week.

Time for you to start thinking hard about taking a shot at whatever your secret, unspoken goal is.

Smoove wrote:

[quote]Napper wrote:

M49 5'8" 133lbs

Goal: Chicago Marathon sub 2:40

Sun: 20 total, with 16 mile simulator run. Goal was to run 16 miles at race pace, wearing what I plan to wear on race day. Goal pace is 6:06, and wanted to be within a few seconds of it. Averaged 6:03, with my third of three laps being the fastest. Felt pretty strong today, and am very happy with the result, as it was fairly humid and warmer than I'm expecting for the race.

/quote]

Dude, 16 at better than goal pace is no joke. Actually, it suggests to me that you have the wrong goal pace, especially if you’re dealing with weather and throwing that up at the end of a 90 mile week.

Time for you to start thinking hard about taking a shot at whatever your secret, unspoken goal is.

+1000

...and well stated, Smoove

What I was thinking fellas. I mean I don’t know sh*t about a marathon but from following the training here. Lo these many years... this seems like Much much better than 2:40 shape if soloing 16 at basically 6 flat in the heat while doing volume.

That’s hardcore there.

M42, 5'10 145

Goal Race: CIM

Continuing to work on base while nursing SI joint / sore glute issue with PT. All running entirely by feel fix a focus on staying relaxed regardless of effort.

* - indicates treadmill

Monday - 70 min @ 8:08 (140 bpm)

Tuesday #1 - 105 min @ 8:01 (134 bpm)

*Tuesday #2 - 30 min @ 8:26 (129 bpm)

Wednesday - 60 minutes with strides. 8:15 (136 bpm)

Thursday - 60 minutes with last mile run strong into the wind. Last mile 6:00

Friday - 110 min @ 7:51 (144 bpm)

Saturday - 60 minutes with every other Mile at high aerobic effort. Splits 6:19, 6:09, 6:30 (into wind and uphill)

Sunday - Rest!

Weekly Totals:

Distance: 62.86 miles

Duration: 8:18

Elev Gain: 1280 ft

Male, 25, 6’4”, 145lbs

PRs: 4:54 (mile), 16:56, 1:18:00, 28:01 (8k 2015), 2:47:14 (all 2018 but 8k)

Goal: Philly Marathon

Upcoming Races - Paul Short 8k 10/5, Philly M 11/24

Mn - 10 @ 8:00s

Tu - 4x1600, 4x400 + WU/WD = 13

Wd - AM: 5 @ 8:45s, PM: 11 @ 8:00s

Th - 7 @ 8:25s

Fr - 11 @ 8:10s

Sa - 9 @ 8:00s

Su - AM: HM @ 1:29:20 + WU/WD = 18.5, PM: 6 @ 7:35s

Total - 90.5

Tu - 5:40 5:46 5:44 5:48 87 86 87 88 - Was thinking of 6x5:35 but I think I was still recovering from last weekend (5k fri, oly tri sunday) so did just four, and got slower each rep. did some 400s with the guys still doing 6 but even had a hard time with those.

Wd - that AM run was a good indicator of how not recovered I was

Su - 6:02 6:03 6:03 6:15 6:35 6:23 6:42 6:50...7:29 7:22 7:12 7:42 7:47 0:51 . After seeing the 6:50 I decided to just jog it in since that is already 25s slower than (PR) MP. Apart from last week's 5k there was no real reason to think I was prepared for a good half marathon (or any race). I could go into the details of why i think the performance was poor but I'm not sure it would help. It was an off day and it happens. Still had fun at the race. Some local guys were in my coral along with a friend from HS. 2/4 of them did well, one was so so and the other ran terrible like me. The fiancee also had a slow race (1:28) but was at least just on goal MP so it at least functioned as a good workout. Again it was fun seeing Stone out there and I appreciated the cheers, I looked around some after the race but didn't find you.

Despite the slow down, I do not feel like I went out too hard, and I was 40s behind at the 10k compared to the running 10k of my Olympic triathlon last weekend. (38:02 in tri vs 38:42 in hm).

-RS

"Trust your process." - Some lady at the park trying to coax her kid up the playground ladder while striking the delicate balance between coddling and dismissing.

Starting 9 weeks to the Crossroads of America Kerfuffle

M - 10mi including 5x1600m with 400m jog (5:39, 5:39, 5:40, 5:40, 5:37)

After 4 hours of driving, a 2 hour flight and postponing dinner...I'll take it.

T - 3mi shuffle

Comedy of errors. Slept through my alarm so treated morning like a shakeout run with plans to run again at lunch. Realized when I got to work that my gym bag was still at home.

W - 9mi AM including 6.5mi 'fartlek' at half mile intervals

Ran this one only 34hrs after Monday's workout and with a morning temp of 77° and DP of 72°, so even though I scheduled 7x0.5mi brisk/float alternations with time goals I swallowed the watch and just tried to put a good effort in. Ended up averaging about 6:30 pace overall. Not ideal, but neither were the circumstances. Felt sufficiently thrashed so I think the work was done. Somehow this weather felt so much worse than 71° on Monday did.

T - 16mi

F - 10mi

S - 11mi including 10 steady avg 6:39. Lungs felt ok, legs felt pretty washed

S - 11mi

Total - 70mi in 9:10

Made it through a three week gauntlet that included two out of town wedding trips and two additional overnight trips for my wife, which left me to try to figure out when to run while 'single dad-ing' it (well, both weddings were in the last 8 days). Schedule should be opening up for the next ~6 weeks, so hopefully I can get to some real training going now.

I need to get some sleep.

Thanks for the votes of confidence. But to be honest, I'm not sure if I can go much faster than 2:39 -- maybe 2:37 high if I had a perfect day. I just don't have a lot of speed -- endurance is more my strength. The difference in effort it takes me to run a 5:55 mile versus a 6:06 mile is pretty big. Also, I know that 6:03 Garmin pace is probably around 6:06 actual race pace, given that we can't run the tangents perfectly and the Garmin isn't 100% accurate. So I will likely be conservative during the race and not pick it up much unless I'm still feeling great around mile 18. I also like to go out conservatively and let MP come to me rather than force it early.

I often wonder if I'm being too conservative, but right now, I really just want to break 2:40. The difference to me between a 2:39 and a 2:38 or even 2:37 isn't that much. But the difference between 2:40:xx and 2:39:xx is huge. So I have a lot more to lose than to gain by being aggressive.

If I do get under 2:40 this year, I will likely be more aggressive next year, maybe dropping my goal time to 6:00 pace.

Lo these many years I have not run across a keener Kramer quoter.