Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 9/15/19

Male, 43, 5’10”, 140 lbs

Goal- 3:05 on 10/20

Plan - Daniels Marathon Plan A

S-7 @8:30

M-14 2E+3T+2E+3T+4E * Woof

T-6 @8:30

W-10 @8:30

Th-6 @8:20 w/5x100 strides

F-21 start @8:30 finish @7:50

Sat- 1 mile swim

Total- 64 miles, 16 beers **

* Tempo @6:40, 45, 41, and then @6:41, 48, 41. Increased Vdot by 1 and therefore I merely survived this workout, but, I loved all of it.

** Highest mileage week of year. I am sore and tired but good.

More importantly, good luck to everyone at RnR! Hoping you all achieve your goals. And good luck to everyone this week.

Light rain stopped about 30 minutes ago. Clouds are gone, sun coming out. Gun in 4 minutes...

“Take time to deliberate; but when the time for action arrives, stop thinking”

— Andrew Jackson.

RRR 36 dude 165-166

Sun - 6 w 2:36 1/2m in middle

Mon - Lunch 7 trails and 4x200 w buddy (42-42-42-30.8)

Tues- am 10 pm 4

Wed- 12 including 4up&4down 4x(200-200-400) @ R type pace w equal distance recovery

37.6-38.5-78.8

38.7-39-76.7

39.1-38.2-79.5

38.1-37.7-77.2

Thu - 8 Recovery

Fri - 4@0530 4@1030 Finishes second run w 69s quarter (supposed to be 5k pace ?‍♂️)

Sat - AM 12 including 5k@17:50

PM 6 Gentle

74 miles run

50ish bike

And 2 lifting sessions 1push and 1pull

Solid week for R3. Got the miles up a tad. Got two solid workouts in with some up speed stuff sprinkled in throughout the week. Sunday legs wanted to go and not be in recovery mode following my 12 mile workout on Saturday. So in the middle I ripped off a 1/2 mile and then they wanted to go recovery! Monday buddy wanted to do a “hard” last 200 and he clocked sub 33 and pushed me to a fast (for me) 200. Solid R workout on wed. need to be doing threshold but with the lows all week like 70+66-68 type temps I couldn’t get it in. 5k on Saturday was good considering the mileage and workouts. Also a bear of a course that is point to point. It gains 110ft but 60 of that is last mile all up grade w zero downhill the last mile. Splits were pretty rough as I went out at 5:37 so I won’t share the last one ha. But it was what is needed. A good hard effort in the midst of a longer run. Got out sprinted for second by .7sec. according to watch I hit 17.4mph or 3:24pace as top speed on the sprint so at least I made him earn second. The 3 mile recovery run than evening turned into 6 as my legs felt good. All in All after all the injuries and niggles the last 10 months it feels great to be full speed and healthy w zero niggles of any kind. Summer of RRR def built up a good foundation. The top speed is better than before. The aerobics are in great shape. The threshold/stamina needs a lot of work but that bends back fast for me it seems. Last year I went 17:44 this race and 16:57 3 weeks later so hopefully that trend continues. Running a similar time while 6-8 lbs heavier has me feeling okay.

Hope to see a lot of killer weeks. Good luck Ms Stone!!

Good morning! Hope all the folks racing Philly are killing it right now!

M25, 128lbs, 5'7"

PRs: 4:38 mile, 16:50 5K, 34:58 10K, 1:16:39 HM, 2:46:07 M

2019 Goals: NYCM, CIM (alternative/backup), sub 2:40

=== 9/9/19 - 9/15/19: 101.7 miles ===

> Mon - 16.56 miles

#1 (6:05): 11.41 miles @7:56, w/ 4 strides

#2 (10:49): 5.14 miles @7:48

> Tue - 15.36 miles

#1 (6:16): 10.32 miles @7:54

#2 (11:01): 5.04 miles @7:57

> Wed - 17.03 miles

#1 (5:49): 12.01 miles @6:38, 4x(10’on, 2’30 jog)

5:43 avg

5:48, 5:45, 5:44, 5:37

#2 (10:55): 5.02 miles @7:56

> Thu - 15.29 miles

#1 (5:45): 10.27 miles @8:36

#2 (10:50): 5.02 miles @7:53

> Fri - 13.55 miles

#1 (5:53): 9.13 miles @7:56, w/ 4 strides

#2 (10:54): 4.42 miles @7:55

> Sat - 20.71 miles

#1 (6:02): 20.71 miles @6:28, 5-4-3-2-1mi on, 1mi easy between

5:56 avg

6:08, 6:02 5:56, 5:57, 5:56

5:59, 5:57, 5:55, 5:50

5:57, 5:55, 5:53

5:58, 5:52

5:44

> Sun - 3.16 miles

#1 (6:54): 3.16 miles @8:50

> Notes

Two pretty great big quality days this week! The Wed 4x10’ were longer, faster, and on shorter rest than a few weeks ago when I did 4x8’ so I’m pleased with the progress there.

The biggest highlight is the long run workout on Sat -- 15 miles faster work inside of ~21. Best long run to date by far! Going in, I wrongly assumed that the last 3 blocks of 3-2-1 would feel pretty easy compared to the 5-4, but wow it was actually really tough to re-engage and stay focused that far into the run and off of the easy miles in-between. Felt like a great simulator forcing the focus late in a marathon so I’m really happy with having completed it. I’m hoping this is a solid indicator 7 weeks out for NYC. From here on out I’ll probably start moving my long runs from more flat routes into more hilly routes to get practice there.

In the men’s race, Mesfun is laying waste to the field. Coming up on 12 miles. Rotich destroying the women past 10. Becky Wade in clear second right now - I know that will make RRR happy.

I last saw RunnerSam and Mrs. Stone at about the 4.5 mile mark. Mrs. Stone perfect up to that point.

Worried about the second half as it is now bright sun and HUMID...

Stone- thanks for the updates man. Sticky morning to run.

J. Quill- that’s a great 5/4/3/2/1.

Also congratulations to you and Darkwave on the great miles last weekend.

Stat- tough races happen, but you are still beastly

R3- did you really just quote Andrew Jackson? aren’t there some better options available?

m38, 6’2”, 154. Less than 8 weeks to 2:29 at Indy Monumental.

m- 10

*t- 12 miles alternations, continuous, 5:51 overall

6:17/5:49/5:26/6:09/5:50/5:27/6:20/5:50/5:26/6:20/5:49/5:21

w- 10/5

th- 10.5+hill sprints/4.5

*f- 35k continuous (10k@6:58, 5k@5:41, 5k 1’ on/off, 5k@7:00, 10k@5:43)

s- 10/5

su- 10/4.5

conditions were very good on Friday and decent on Tuesday. I’ve never been in better shape than this, but I don’t know if I’m in 6 seconds/mile better shape than at Philadelphia Marathon last year. I think most of the improvement is from dropping a few pounds.

M 49 weight up lol

M 6.2 2/1 per RRRs suggestion the ones were around 420-450 meters

T 3.3 very easy

W 6.3 almost as hilly as I can make it. 460ish feet of gain. Ran the downhills slower than slow. They kill my knees.

T off. Last day of a seminar. Decided to hangout instead of train. Politics pfft...

F off. Should of run but wanted to rest for Sat.

S 4 is what I'm claiming. Went to a XC meet and did a lot of sprinting.

S planned 5-6

Total so far around 20. I'll hit at least 25. Decent week. Speed is coming back, endurance is coming back. Hopefully someday I'll be able to start ripping off longer runs without knee issues. The hill work was fun. I will be doing that loop more often. It fits in well with my plan, build up more leg strength and speed. Fortunately for me. I'm in such good shape, anything helps.

Hey Pappy

It's not something I dwell on, but I have hardware (screws and wires) in my right knee (patella) from a 1997 car accident. When I got serious about running as an adult, downhills were brooooootal. To this day, my right quad is a banana to my left quad pineapple. That said, I put myself on a program of very gradually pushing downhills (I was in a trail running phase). I still suck at downhills, but I'm a so much better than before because (I believe) I built up a network of supporting musculature around that funky knee.

I used to have pain running downhill (and pain with any load (stairs up or down) especially the day after), but the pain diminished and ultimately disappeared as a result of pushing to the point of just pre-pain... you know the drill...

My running balance is "off" according to my gadgets. My ground contact is always higher on my good leg than on my bad leg; any pic of my pins makes it obvious that my left leg does more work than my right. But by working intelligently (mostly) I've brought that bad knee quite a ways back.

Just suggesting that avoiding hills avoids the problem, whereas compromising with them may be to your advantage. Do them slow, but maybe do them as often as recovery permits. You won't grow more cartilage, but maybe you'll develop the support that makes downhills less ouchy.

Hey, I'm a Pappy fan.

Mrs. Stone wisely turned the race into a training run after 7 miles. Finished 1:40:52 feeling good. There was tons of devastation. I saw an elite walking at 12.8 miles. Couldn’t finish jogging. I saw another guy step off the course at 12 miles. Lots of agony today.

Winning times were like 1:03/1:11. That tells you the story.

Ms. Stone: Respect! Run the race they give you. No need to go home devastated in less than ideals!!!!!

Male, 51 yo, 5’7”, 129 lbs

Goals: Dec 15 - Taipei Marathon (lottery willing) - sub 3:10

Upcoming Races: Oct 6 - 10k; Nov 3 - HM

Week 14

Wednesday Q:

12km E + 4(1km I / 3 min recovery) + 3km E

The plan called for 6, but I’m still adjusting due to heat. Just can’t cool off fast enough, but fall is in the air. I hit my vdot 49 pace (based on Boston) at what I perceived as the right effort (harder than T, not a sprint) and at a reasonable HR (noted only after the run).

Sunday Q: The perennial “distance vs time” dilemma

On the Daniels 2Q plan, I’m supposed to run the lesser of 27km or 2 hours at E. The only way for me to run 27km in 2 hours is to run 10 seconds per km faster than my current vdot M pace. So? Run the distance at E? Run the time at E?

Here’s the plan: I looked at my recent average E pace and calculated how long 27m would take. It came out to 2:24... 24 minutes over 2 hours. So, I plan to literally “split the difference.” I decided to cut the extra time in half and aim for 2:10-2:15 at steady E effort.

Here’s the reality: I did 25km in 2:10 for a 5:12/km (8:23/mile) which is quick for me. Just working on a 3-3 breathing rhythm. Fell into a few stretches of almost hypnotic clarity...tic tic tic tic tic tic. It was a good run. It was an easy run. It was faster than than its counterpart last cycle by about 0:12/km at only slightly higher HR (and hotter temps too).

M/36/142lbs/6’

Pretty good week overall. Had a tough time getting it all in, but found a way. Traveling for work this week, so will miss track workout Tuesday, so I’ll probably adjust and get something in Wednesday. Here’s the week in review

M - 6 at 7:26/mile

Tu - AM 4 at 7:47 - PM 3 up, 8x800 (400 rest), 1.5 down

800s - 245, 243, 244, 244, 242, 243, 243, 239

W - 7 at 735

Th - 4.2 at 745

F - 2 up, 4 tempo (556, 554, 551, 543), 2 down

Sa - 13.1 at 721

Su - 6.2 at 732

Total this week - 58.2 miles

Good workout on Tuesday and tempo on Friday. Gotta find some time to race on a Saturday. Will take some coordination with wife, but think there are a few in October I can take the whole family to. Hope everyone had great weeks! Can’t wait to hear how the half went for Mrs. Stone and RunnerSam.

Stone - Very wise on the part of Ms. Stone

SLO - I like the quote .. the man may have been bad but hey? Still a good quote. But way to nit pick!

M35, 5’10”, under 160

2019 bests:

5k - 16:01

Boston- 2:30:21

Upcoming:

9/21 - 5k + 10k

10/6 - 5k (or maybe mile)

10/13 - Chicago (4 weeks)

Mo: AM - 10 @ 6:54; PM - 5 @ 8:05

Tu: AM - 4 x 3200 @ 10:40 w 400 (2’) jog, 14 total*; PM - 6 @ 8:28

We: 10 @ 8:27

Th: 20 @ 6:44 (78 + 69)

Fr: AM - 10 @ 7:58; PM - 5 @ 8:37

Sa: 10 with 3200 in 11:00 and the rest @ 8:11.**

Su: 10 @ 7:01

Total: 100 miles

*Reps in 10:48, 10:42, 10:38, 10:34. 71 + 66, some sun, not bad. Legs felt a touch “lactic” toward the end of the last two reps. Including the rest jogs, averaged 5:36 mile pace for 14k.

**Tried to force a workout but needed an easy day.

Next Saturday I’m doing a double race with a 5k starting at 8 a.m. followed by a 10k at 9 a.m. The fields are competitive and the courses are fast, with the first mile significantly downhill. (They can’t be used for our leaderboard, especially the 5k.) Jog uphill after the 5k to get back to the start. It should be a good workout.

Looking forward to hearing details from RS and Mrs Stone. Sounds like it was a tough day, and a smart move on Mrs Stone’s part.

I am somewhat sore in the hams and glutes, but it is not hampering me. Here is my week...

M: 13.13 at 7:30 overall...in the hills...felt like nothing

T: 11.13 at 7:31 overall...felt like nothing

W: 11.95 at 6:46 overall...10 x 1/2-mile workout, 90-sec. jog rests...nothing special...felt so-so...sunny and warm...averaged only 2:51.4 on the 10 reps...oh well

T: 10.5 at 7:27 overall...felt better

F: 19.26 at 7:00 overall...9/3/1 jog rest/3/3.25 MP tempo workout...in the hills...this went better...6,06.7, 6:06.2, 6:01.1 for the first MP block and then 6:07.2, 6:10.3, and 6:13.9 for the second block...cool down felt great...could have kept going

Sat.: 12.25 at 7:25 overall

Sun.: 7.13 at 7:31 overall

85 miles

Have a great week, everyone!

Male, 41, 5’11”, mid 170s

PRs: 16:43 (2019) 1:17:24 (2019), 2:47:00 (2018)

Goal race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

Goal time: TBD

M - 20km (5:03). HR 144. 8km easy, 10 x 200m hill at mile race effort with jog down recoveries, 8km easy. :37-:38/hill at about 3-4% grade.

T - 8km (5:49). HR 129. Ran with Mrs. Stone.

W - Rest

Th - 11.3km (5:21). HR 148. Pacing Mrs. Stone’s workout. Including 3 x 1 mile with 1:00 walk recoveries. 7:07 average for the miles.

F - Rest

Sa - 10km (5:48). HR 137. Ran with Mrs. Stone. Included strides at the end.

Su - 11.1km (4:50). HR 152. Broken running during the race. Included a one mile segment at 6:17.

Weekly Total: 60.4 km

Year to Date: 1980 km

Coming to the realization between my work schedule and my girls’ new school schedule that fitting in weekly volume this fall is going to be really tough. I may be resigned to training around 50 miles a week in 5 or 6 days and just see where that gets me at CIM.

Hope everyone else had a great week.

Mrs. Stone’s week:

Female, 44, 5’6”, not allowed to divulge weight (of course she’s fit, but never fit enough in her mind)

PRs: 21:20 (2017, 2019), 1:36:43 (2019), 3:31:40 (2019)

Goal race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

Goal time: sub 3:25:00

M - 7 miles (10:16)

T - 5 miles (9:21)

W - 9+ miles (9:01). Including pacing her slower friend’s workout. 6x (.5mi @ 8:22/mi, .5mi @ 8:54).

Th - 7 miles (8:37). Including 3 x 1 mile off 1:00 walk recoveries. 7:07 average for the miles.

F - Rest

Sa - 6+ miles (9:23). Strides.

Su - 13.1 miles (7:42). Philly Rock n Roll HM. First 6.2 miles@ 7:24/mi, last 6.9 miles @ 7:58/mi. Was a controlled fade, as she essentially backed off to perceived marathon effort for the second half when she started overheating and knew she would blow up if she didn’t slow down.

Weekly Total: 48 miles

Year to Date: 1,774 miles

It was a shame about the weather today, but she made the right decision. The goal race is CIM and she got in over 13 miles today faster than goal pace. Can’t argue with that workout at this point in the game.

Onward and upward.

F42, 5'6"

Goal races:

Des Moines half-marathon 10/20

Philadelphia marathon 11/24

After a week+ out west, back at humid sea level and right back into the schedule.

M: off, flying home.

Tu: too tired to get up in the a.m. (brain said "It's only 3, it's the middle of the night, nope") so ran after work .... warm, felt still too full from lunch, oh well, 7 mi.

W: On treadmill because it's dark until after 6 now and I hate to do tempo running in the dark: 3mi E + 3 mi T + 1 mi E + 1 mi T mi E. T miles were all 7:20-7:25 (treadmill pace). Felt all right.

Th: I got up at 5 and there was lightning and thunder, so I hit the treadmill again for easy 10 mi. When I came upstairs after the workout, the sky was clear and it looked like a lovely morning. Boo!

F: 10 mi easy, outside.

Saturday: 8K race, 2 mi cooldown. There was a women's only pair of races in Wilmington this weekend. I had it on my radar for a while, deciding last weekend I'd do the 8K not the half. Starting with a notice on their Facebook page in the middle of the week (something about how they'd sent out an email to athletes, but no one seemed to have got it, so they were sending it out again), then noticing some problems with info on their website (the list of prize money for the half-marathon had 5th place same amount as 1st place) I began to feel that perhaps this race management wasn't very competent. I picked up my race bib and crappy t-shirt Friday night. The t-shirt had the wrong date printed on it (Sept. 24). Confidence in race management dwindling even more ..... Saturday morning, got to the race start area, milled around warming up a little and waiting. Weather was decent. Not exactly cool, but not too warm. Announcer guy went on and on, telling us how they had wanted to have the race in Philadelphia in October a couple years ago, something something the city of Philly didn't like them so didn't let them have it there because something something the Rock'n'Roll race, blah blah, ok fine we get it Wilmington wasn't your first choice, thanks for making us feel good about ourselves. Then said they didn't have to worry about starting the race exactly on time because most of it was being run off city streets. Thanks, but most of us like a race to start on-time.

They split the starts, having the half go first. Normally I wouldn't care, but if you're going to split starts, you need to make sure there is plenty of time between the races. The announcer originally said they'd start the 8K 5-10 mins after the half. Mmm, ok. Though the field wasn't that big, they even split the half into two "waves" .... having the people planning to run faster than 9:30/mi go off first, then letting everyone else go. After the half people were all across the start, they moved up the 8K women and said "in about 60 seconds, we'll start the 8K." ARE YOU KIDDING ME? We could still see the last half-marathoners, the very slow ones, not even around the first corner a block away!!!!! So yeah, we caught up to those women immediately and the first 2 miles of the race were spent dodging very slow runners and walkers on narrow city streets and then on a riverfront boardwalk that is only so wide. It was terrible. My pacing was terrible because of this. My first mile was 7:19, and that didn't feel very easy because of the crowd and the dodging back and forth etc.

I had overestimated what the strength of the field would be. In hindsight, I guess I should have realized that this being the actual first time this race took place in Wilmington, it would probably be less than optimally filled. And with the Rock'n'Roll race in Philly today, even the half wouldn't likely be well-stocked. I also had no real high expectations for speed myself and just thought I'd run it as hard as felt doable. That first mile at 7:19 wasn't very encouraging, but once I could quit trying to avoid slow runners I felt myself able to open up a bit. And at the turnaround I found myself in 4th place.

Well well, I thought. Top 5 had prize money involved. Places 2 and 3 were not that far ahead (1st place was crushing it, way out of reach). I didn't get too excited, and carefully worked my way up and knocked off 3rd place, and then around 3 mi went past 2nd place. I could hear her behind me for most of the rest of the way -- or at least I thought it was her -- and while I wanted to and tried to put a little distance between us to feel more secure about staying in 2nd place, I could hear by the cheers at the aid station that she was basically right behind me. But I didn't waste anything by trying to look back; I just pushed myself to run hard in the last mile. I nearly got caught right at the end -- the woman right behind me edged past and I was surprised because it wasn't the one I thought it was -- different shirt -- but I surged enough to get back ahead, kind of squeezed her off around the last slight turn and just squeaked across the line ahead of her, an unexpected 2nd place finish in 34:54. (I had to look at my watch to see my finish time -- the clock over the finish line had time of day, not elapsed race time -- seriously! What is wrong with these race directors?) 1st place was ~29 minutes, so there was a huge gap between us. But I'll take it. 50 seconds short of my PR, but my third-best 8K time (by 5 or 6 seconds) and at least a minute better than I'd thought I might do as I trained through the week, didn't ease up for this race. So despite the race management stupidity, I was pretty satisfied with that result. Splits were 7:19-7:04-6:59-7:06-6:25 (for 0.95 mi). Knowing that woman was right behind me really drove me in that last mile. At the finish I nearly threw up when I stopped. It's been more than 25 years since I felt like that at the end of a race!

I'm not clear on how much 2nd place was worth. They said there was a $1500 purse for the 8K, so it should be pretty decent. This of course assumes the race has its ish together enough to actually get the top 5 their winnings, and given the mismanagement I'd seen to this point, that may be assuming a lot.

Sunday: 16 mi easy. I was feeling bad for those of you running the half in Philly because it wasn't nice out this morning. Yesterday would have been much easier. My legs were really feeling yesterday's race and it was very warm and so grossly humid again.

60 mi for the week. I'll be glad for the rest day tomorrow, then back at it with a 65-70-mile week planned ahead.

Yeah I jogged it on once I ran a 6:50 mile 8. 1:29, the fiancée had a tough race at 1:28 but it at least was a good MP for her. Will give more info later after my double tonight. Was very cool to see Stone out on the course, wish I could have made RRTT proud

M36

Hi all. Got hit by an acorn during my jog in the woods today. Be careful out there, folks.

All easy as I’m recovering from last weeks HM.

M- 3.4

T- 3.4

W-rest

Th-6.5

F-4

S-6

Su-14 in the hills of Lebanon

Total: 37

Haven’t yet pulled the trigger on Houston, where I’d likely try for sub 3. Travel prices are affordable. Wife has given green light. Someone convince me to pull the damn trigger.

Have a great week all.