Flopped Marathon - HELP!

Based on your race times and training your goal sounds reasonable, and not only that but you started conservatively. From what you've written it's tough to tell what went wrong unless it was mental. Another marathon this fall seems like an OK idea if that's what you want to do.

Sounds like an aggressive training schedule for your fitness level.

Sorry it didn't go as planned. Seems like you trained well. Perhaps it was psychological. Did you come down with a sickness shortly following? That's my only other guess--that you were on the verge of getting sick.

"I super successfully followed Pfitzinger’s 18-week/55-70 mile plan, including:

-4 20-milers (1 was 21)

-4 long runs incorporating MP miles (starting with 8 and gradually building to 14 as part of an 18-miler during a 70 mile week, no problems.)

-3 10K time-trials resulting in PRs each time, going from 44:27 to 44:09 as my confidence improved, each followed by a 17-18 mile long run the following day, no problems.

I’ve previously run 2 marathons in 4:00 and 3:46. My half PR right before starting training was 1:41."

Your training doesn't correlate with your performances. My guess is that as another poster suggested, your training program using Pfitzinger's guidelines was just too much for your level of fitness.

It would help to know your gender, age and experience, but no matter if male or female, doing all that training basically indicates you may have run yourself out of shape. In other words, you basically overtrained for trying to run a sub 3:30 marathon. You don't give information as to the paces of your runs, so that might also be a factor as to why your results don't reflect your training.

When I taught adult runners and they would ask me how many 20+ mile runs they should go on, I would say, "One, and make sure lots of people are cheering you on when you do it." For any of my runners who topped out at around 3 hours for the marathon, the longest runs I would suggest to them would be 16 miles. For someone at your level there just is no sense in putting in so many miles and running so many long runs. Furthermore, if you run a pr 10k, why would you go out and run an 18 miler the day after? You don't give pace for your runs, as that would also be helpful in determining what was going on with your training.

The anxiety issue may also be a factor and may be indicative as to why you are doing so much training for such little reward. The key for someone of your fitness level to running a successful marathon is to train less, enjoy it more. I haven't looked at Pfitzinger's program in quite some time and don't remember who the program was directed towards. However, I would guess it is geared more for runners who are in sub 3 hour shape.

Based on your half PR and 10k races I don’t think 3:30 is a reasonable goal. I think 3:45 is probably more accurate. I would suggest improving at those distances and be consistent in training before shooting for 3:30. People bonk in marathons all the time. It’s no big deal. Improve in other distances and you’ll feel better. You probably need more speedwork too.

bro, focus on 5k-10k for a couple of years

In my opinion you went out too fast because of anxiety, don’t worry - I do that a lot in races too lol!

Personally I think you should have taken the first 10k of the marathon easy about 8:45-9:00 pace and each 10k into the marathon speed up your pace by 10-15s per mile if you felt good. This would allow you to conserve energy and average sub 8:30 miles throughout but without burning half way through.

Running too fast before you are warmed up can create tension which means your muscles will be using more energy than they need to at a certain pace, personally I think you probably HAD the fitness for 3:35 but you didn’t pace right! If you couldn’t reach that time goal starting out at close to 9 pace and catching up throughout then you may not have had the fitness to get 3:35 to begin with.

The only way is to rest up, run some more and sign up for another marathon and try again!

I ran my first ever marathon last month in 3:50 on a whim and off middle distance training and my half PR is 1:40 like yours. I was aiming for sub 4 because it was my first so I didn’t want to set any crazy goals and everything went well, I literally went through the 20 mile mark dead on 3 hours which is 9:00 pace FLAT and then because I took it easy, I was able to smash the final 10k from there and still have energy after the race. You have more marathon experience than me, I personally think if you paced correctly you could BQ. I think you have the fitness and although I am far from an expect on marathons, strategy and patience seems to be just as important!

I have experience bonking so I feel your pain!. The mental side is real and when I start to feel bad in the middle of a marathon I immediately start to think I'm toast and I slow down or run/walk when I probably could have pushed through. Some experts say that after a few difficult miles, even late in a marathon, you might start to feel better again if you keep pushing.

Random thoughts:

1) Years ago I decided not to stress too much about the marathon (and BQing). Just appreciate the fun of the training process and the fitness.

2) By walking those last miles, you can probably recover more quickly for another attempt. I'd try it - and cooler weather in October/November will help.

3) Erie is great for PRs but the number of Boston Qualifiers was down this year so the warmer temperature probably affected a lot of runners.

4) Your next successful marathon will be that much sweeter after this temporary setback!

How many hours a week were you running in this plan?

Remember that running 55-70 mile a week for someone of your speed takes probably the same amount of time as 90-100 miles a week for a fast young male.

I wouldn't be surprised if you were running more hours a week than some pros.

I think it's likely that you overtrained.

"I had a bagel with a little peanut butter and jelly and half a banana 2 hours prior."

"I took water every 2 miles and Huma+ gels starting early at mile 3, 8..."

Did you also do these (food, carbs) for your training long runs? If not, don't do them next time. You loaded for 5 days, I doubt you were going to bonk.

Looking back at the Erie weather, it looks like the humidity was ~70%. That can affect performance more than you think.

Short recovery, then go for a cooler fall marathon.

Thank you so much for giving feedback, it all makes a lot of sense.

I'm a 36 year old female. I knew it was advanced training for not an advanced runner - but I’ve seemed to enjoy and respond well to doing a lot, working my way up in mileage over the last couple of years and taking on challenging training.

That being said, I was always gauging for any need to step back - it just always felt so manageable, and I seemed to be improving. I assumed if I was leaving my race in training there would have been warning signs before literally completing the entire plan, ugggh. I guess I'm getting the lesson that just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it's OK. Just confusing!

Pacing: Tried to cap my 20-milers at 3 hours but admit a couple of them went a few minutes longer. Recovery runs were kept slow between 10-10:30min/mile and general easy runs around 9:30. There were some 800m-1 mile interval repeats at 5K pace/6:55 min/mi in the final weeks. Early in training were threshold runs around 7:40min/mi but felt like they should have been faster. Long and medium-long mid-week runs were around 8:50-9:20min/mi, and I often did a progression working from 9:30 to 8:30 toward the last couple miles. All paces were kept within a targeted HR range and based on pacing instructions from Pfitzinger’s book. I ran the long runs after the 10Ks because that’s what the plan said. I thought it was crazy, but it felt fine and normal every time. Makes it hard to figure out realistic pacing when I was considering every chart I could find and going off of my HR and effort level… nothing felt too challenging or exhausting. I tried so hard to be realistic about my actual fitness and avoid just aiming for the pace I wanted. Ha.

I definitely agree the anxiety connects to an overzealous drive to do alllll the work and takes the fun away in the end.

Thank you again.

Thank you for the feedback! I agree - I do seem to feel best when I start out extra conservatively and am shocked by how much I pick it up and gain in time after just a couple more relaxed miles. I definitely need to get back to just having fun and feeling good!

Yeah, it was a lot - I'd say around 8-10 hours a week.

I've always been so aware of overtraining and was vigilant about any warning signs that I was overreaching in any way. I knew it was a really hard plan - but I assumed it was OK if it felt OK and was a healthy push. I was excited by how well it went (that is, until the main event, HA). I never felt too challenged or tired, never even had a random rough day (again, until the RACE) but can definitely respect all the opinions that it was too advanced. It just leaves me confused as how the hell I'm supposed to figure out what's realistic when I tried to base it on effort and HR and how my body felt, as well as so many different pacing charts/books. Such is learning the marathon!

Thank you!

I used all the same foods meticulously through training, every long run. I even practiced my pre-race dinner in the final weeks. I know the reality bonking is super common and always a possibility, especially being novice - but it just seemed so early in the race for that to be the problem, yikes!

For someone that usually handles the heat well, I did feel noticeably warm/thirsty and had wayyy more dried salt on me than I've ever noticed in training, even on the hotter more humid days. Could be one piece of the puzzle paired with the faster effort. Thank you for responding!

As as another female with the same 1/2 pr as you, following the same training plan as you for a fall marathon with the same goal time, I'm a little shocked that anyone would say you went out too fast or that your goal was too aggressive. Yes, the plan calls for a lot of time on our feet for someone running at our pace, but I'm assuming you built up to it and you didn't go from 30 mpw to 55-70.

Everything I've read on these forums about the Pfitzinger training plans was that if you did the training and could hit the MP runs (the 16 miles with 12 and MP and 18 w/14 MP) without struggling, you should be good to go on race day. Also, looking at your half and 10k times, that should have also put you in the right ballpark, considering you did 18 solid weeks of marathon prep.

So my take on it is that you were properly prepared and you had the potential to run the time you wanted, something just went wrong on race day. I had that happen a few years ago where things just felt off from the moment I started and even though I was running very conservatively, died majorly at the 6 mile mark of a half and had hundreds and hundreds of people pass me on the second half of the race. A couple of months later, I went 17 minutes faster.

One thing I will say is don't discount the weather. If it was warm, sunny and/or humid, that can take a serious toll on goal times.

I would chill out for a few days and then hit the training for a fall marathon!

captainkatiedid wrote:

I used all the same foods meticulously through training, every long run. I even practiced my pre-race dinner in the final weeks. I know the reality bonking is super common and always a possibility, especially being novice - but it just seemed so early in the race for that to be the problem, yikes!

For someone that usually handles the heat well, I did feel noticeably warm/thirsty and had wayyy more dried salt on me than I've ever noticed in training, even on the hotter more humid days. Could be one piece of the puzzle paired with the faster effort. Thank you for responding!

I think you just need to relax. Figure out how to reduce your stress and worry. I think that's the thing that's probably holding you back. Drink a beer night before, have some fun times with the wife at the hotel etc. I think is the key for your next race. You'll do fine. Pick a marathon in November or December.

Also note if the race was the week before your period, sometimes the legs feel awful around then and fueling /hydration/temp regulation is actually affected !

This happens to everyone when the temps are above 60 degrees. Just look at the splits in the race results. You will see lots of huge positive splits. Then compare those splits with years when temps stayed in the 40s to 50s. 60+ degrees makes a big difference for many of the average to above average runners. You may want to check in with a registered dietitian to make sure you aren't a heavy sweater and need to take salt supplements on race day. That can make a big difference if it is an issue.

When you add race anxiety to that, you will get what happened to you. When you are stressed out, you are burning calories. I recently had a hugely stressful trial. I lost 4 lbs in a week between getting prepped and going to trial. So, when you are stressed before a marathon, it is like running extra miles before the race even starts. You may want to sit down with a sport psychologist for a few session to see if you can get that under control. You will always have race anxiety. I have never been able to sleep for more than 4-5 hours the night before a marathon. Even at my PR race, I probably slept not more than 3 hours. But once I got up, I was able to get past the stress and enjoy the day. if you can figure out how to let go of the stress on race day, you will be in much better shape during the race.

Finally, I do not think that you are ready to run 3:30-35 on a warm day. Sub 3:40 would be a good goal next time out. Also, ditch the heart rate monitor. It sounds like it is just their because of your general anxiety about running. It also sounds like it is keeping you from training harder. And do not be afraid to do more long runs and to go over 3 hrs. Every time you run 20+ miles you get better at it and recover faster. You should be careful your first two or three training cycles. But after that, you can start pushing your self to do more 20+ milers. That may also help with the anxiety as you will know that you can get to 20 miles feeling strong.

Fully agree. OP seems to be properly prepared, set a reasonable time goal. Just a bad race, sh*t happens. OP should just try again and not overthink it (particularly not if she is struggling with anxiety anyway). I would also not aim for a slower time goal. We are well aware that there is no such thing as a "mojo". Maybe do some more long runs if the 26 miles are intimidating, although from a physiological perspective, not required.