My god. Change the schdule and let her triple at Worlds. Hassan CRUSHES 5000 at Brussels DL

She may have to transform into an 800 runner, given elimination of the 5k and 10k from the DL schedule.

She’ll go from a 1500/5000/10000 goddess to 1500/3000 and maybe 800.

Sucks, as the 5k and 10k are her best events. Prolly same for Koko.

She said today she will run 1500 and 10k

Jo72 wrote:

jhand366 wrote:

I want to see Ayana in top shape try to run away from Sifan in the 10,000m, and see if Sifan can stick with her and win still (breaking the 10,000m WR in the process).

this will have to wait until next year or even later. There is no indication that Ayana will even be running in Doha, much less in top shape. (I have doubts that we will ever again see the 2015-17 version of Ayana but certainly not in 3 weeks in Doha)

Sadly you may be right, double knee surgery and the race against time to regain racing fitness may result in a reduced shadow of Ayana presenting in Doha - BUT I also recall a similar discussion prior to the London WC and we all know what she did there.

Either way it will be a race to savour. We finally have a handful of magnificent distance runners all together in a 10k - I think it will be fast even if Ayana gets left behind. Gidey is a huge talent, but she can only win against Hassan by running an Ayana type race. Obiri is very mentally strong for WC events and I don’t expect her to perform in the mediocre way she did yesterday. But if they allow Hassan to lurk in the pack until the last two laps the race is hers

Ayana is a garbage doper. I hope we never see her on the circuit again.

Hassan is a based beautiful Muslim woman who will crush the competition in Doha, inshallah. I'd love to see her wipe Dibaba's filthy 3:50 off the books.

big dave22 wrote:

Ayana is a garbage doper. I hope we never see her on the circuit again.

Hassan is a based beautiful Muslim woman who will crush the competition in Doha, inshallah. I'd love to see her wipe Dibaba's filthy 3:50 off the books.

Sadly your contention is easily derailed by “facts”

For example did you know that subsequent to Ayanas win in the London WC. Her management team submitted testing records to the press which demonstrated she had been tested twice per month out of competition (blood and urine) for the entirety of the preceding two years. This also covered the Olympic WR and her 2015 -16 exploits.

Now of course none of the assembled media rushed to report this fact as it ran in direct opposition to their pre conceived narrative of doping sensationalism.

Hill run wrote:

Sadly you may be right, double knee surgery and the race against time to regain racing fitness may result in a reduced shadow of Ayana presenting in Doha - BUT I also recall a similar discussion prior to the London WC and we all know what she did there.

Definitely. Her race at Stanford may have been lacklustre by her normal standards, but it was great under the given circumstances. She herself seems to be optimistic (see her twitter account).

Jo72 wrote:

Klosterhalfen was as skinny since 2015 or earlier when she had absolutely nothing to do with NOP. And ran three times sub 4 1500m in 2017 with that skinny body more than one year before joining NOP.

But maybe Nike is distributing the stuff more widely than NOP only?

She was not fast before 2017, and her performances with NOP, i.e. 8:20, go well beyond her slight dips under 4.

Same way with Yomif. He was already close to skeletal when he first hit the big scene, but then he repeatedly failed to meet expectations. People thought he would be dominant, but he couldn't get there - skinny people are already living on the edge of overtraining and can't push much harder without breaking down.

Now Yomif is breaking indoor world records set by MD specialists, running 12:46 5000's leading the whole way... whole nuther level. Things that require consistent extreme training without injury.

Koko was pretty fast for a 19 yo in 2016, frontrunning for world junior bronze against five africans fast.

And in 2017 she was top 5 in the world list both in the 1500m and 3k. The only women with more fast 1500m times in that year were Hassan and Kipyegon.

But you are missing the point. You claim that NOP does some foul play with reducing weight. This might well be the case, but Klosterhalfen simply is not a data point for this claim because she was skinny and world class fast in 2017 and she could not get any skinnier since she has been for years. She got faster with NOP but not more skinny.

Sifan is the most exciting runner in the world. She is talented, charismatic, and yes, beautiful. Nike should name a shoe after her.

Jo72 wrote:

you are missing the point. You claim that NOP does some foul play with reducing weight. This might well be the case, but Klosterhalfen simply is not a data point for this claim because she was skinny and world class fast in 2017 and she could not get any skinnier since she has been for years. She got faster with NOP but not more skinny.

No, you are missing the point, and drawing a false equivalence between how good Koko was in 2017 and how good she is now. 8:20 >>>>>> 3:58.

Anybody can be too skinny. Only NOP seems to be able to make them perform like they're not. There has to be some trick eliminating the metabolic drawbacks. As I said before, it's probably legal, if only because it's relatively new, or maybe because anti-doping is skewed to be blind to western methods like thyroid manipulation.

Jo72 wrote:

Koko was pretty fast for a 19 yo in 2016, frontrunning for world junior bronze against five africans fast.

And in 2017 she was top 5 in the world list both in the 1500m and 3k. The only women with more fast 1500m times in that year were Hassan and Kipyegon.

But you are missing the point. You claim that NOP does some foul play with reducing weight. This might well be the case, but Klosterhalfen simply is not a data point for this claim because she was skinny and world class fast in 2017 and she could not get any skinnier since she has been for years. She got faster with NOP but not more skinny.

Fully agreed. And in 2017 she was still pretty much "work in progress", so I even believe that she would now be much faster anyway.

I also suggest to have a look at e.g. some Tour de France riders: ultra-skinny high performers are not actually that rare in endurance sports, whether or not that fits our professor's theories.

Knacker wrote:

John 3:16 wrote:

Ban me if you like, but please give God respect and always capitalize God. Thank you.

You posted that in only 10 point font, blasphemer!

I have a great sense of humor---so that was a good one on your part, but...always capitalize God, he's earned it;)

Subway Surfers wrote:

They train all day on that HVMN Keto Ester stuff. Then for big races they have L-carnitine infusions with rich complex carbohydrates.

Plus Cytomel and AndroGel.

KSTJ wrote:

Jo72 wrote:

And in 2017 she was top 5 in the world list both in the 1500m and 3k. The only women with more fast 1500m times in that year were Hassan and Kipyegon.

But you are missing the point. You claim that NOP does some foul play with reducing weight. This might well be the case, but Klosterhalfen simply is not a data point for this claim because she was skinny and world class fast in 2017 and she could not get any skinnier since she has been for years. She got faster with NOP but not more skinny.

Fully agreed. And in 2017 she was still pretty much "work in progress", so I even believe that she would now be much faster anyway.

Of course. She was focussing on the 1500 in 2017 (and despite NOP her PB from this year still stands but this is because the Zurich race turned slow after 800m), so her 3k/5k was clearly not close to potential (the 5k 14:51 was run solo with a huge negative split, the first 3k in 9:10 or so). She didn't improve in 2018 because of an injury. Her former German coach recently said that he was not too surprised by her performances this year and that after the training camp in spring 2018 (shortly before she developed the runner's knee that spoiled that season) he expected her to run ~14:30s in the 5k already then.

And Hassan was a 3:56 runner before she joined NOP, her improvement in 2017 after joining them was marginal (or in distances she had hardly ran before). She then considerably improved over the longer distances last season and now seems on the next level both in middle and long distance.

John 3:16 wrote:

Knacker wrote:

You posted that in only 10 point font, blasphemer!

I have a great sense of humor---so that was a good one on your part, but...always capitalize God, he's earned it;)

That which is omnipotent doesn't "earn" anything. But the lower case "god" refers to minor deities. I doubt the OP is invoking their lesser powers.

Jo72 wrote:

Koko was pretty fast for a 19 yo in 2016, frontrunning for world junior bronze against five africans fast.

And in 2017 she was top 5 in the world list both in the 1500m and 3k. The only women with more fast 1500m times in that year were Hassan and Kipyegon.

But you are missing the point. You claim that NOP does some foul play with reducing weight. This might well be the case, but Klosterhalfen simply is not a data point for this claim because she was skinny and world class fast in 2017 and she could not get any skinnier since she has been for years. She got faster with NOP but not more skinny.

Good luck in arguing with the letsrun clown nr. 1 who will not accept even the most clear argument.

If one wants to watch, admire, cast suspicions on NOP I think the person to watch is Jessica Hull.

Koko and Hassan were already too good before they joined NOP, clearly talents on an extremely exalted level (Hassan already has world records, Koko will probably become the strongest distance runner without African heritage ever, except maybe for Radcliffe in the marathon, she is already faster than Paula in the 3k/5k).

Hull is very good but on a level where one has a bunch of post/college runners of roughly the same age and ability to compare her with.

Jo72 wrote:

Koko will probably become the strongest distance runner without African heritage ever, except maybe for Radcliffe in the marathon, she is already faster than Paula in the 3k/5k).

Tatyana Kazankina has run 3:52.47 39 years ago...

Sure, but 1) Kazankina was almost certainly doped to the gills and 2) I meant "long distance", or at least middle and long combined, not middle distance. Koko probably won't ever run 3:52 (around 3:54 seems possible with 8:20 2k and sub 2 800m) but she is already the fastest European born ever in the 3k and second fastest behind Shobukhova in the 5k (and I am pretty sure she could already run faster than 14:23 in a more evenly paced race than in Brussels).

Anyway, the point was that I think it will be more interesting to see the development of a talent not quite that extraordinary, namely Hull, with NOP.