New Study: Vegetarians have higher risk of stroke! hahaha, lol kale breath

YMMV wrote:

And for good measure:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/biotech/sd-me-ketogenic-health-20170905-story.html

“We expected some differences, but I was impressed by the magnitude we observed — a 13 percent increase in median life span for the mice on a high-fat vs high-carb diet,” Ramsey said. “In humans, that would be seven to 10 years. But equally important, those mice retained quality of health in later life.”

Mice studies have no relevance for humans

meat eater wrote:

You gave up bacon and you're still going to die first. Sucks to be you!

Time to meat up, sissies.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-49579820

Trying to pretend you are manly because you eat bacon, shows you are just lacking in that area.

I will let Jonas comment on this:

"I’ve been a Vegan since I started with the memory techniques actually, but it’s not related. It wasn’t that I thought that I would get a better memory by becoming a Vegan, but of course I can’t say that it’s not the case. ... I became the world memory champion after that, but probably it was mostly because of all of the training. ...I think that diet has only a small effect. "

I tend to agree. In your 20s, diet has a very minor role in performance, vegan, carnivore or otherwise. By your 60s, however...

And for good measure:

“We expected some differences, but I was impressed by the magnitude we observed — a 13 percent increase in median life span for the mice on a high-fat vs high-carb diet,” Ramsey said. “In humans, that would be seven to 10 years. But equally important, those mice retained quality of health in later life.”

Mmmm, here comes my seared beef brisket, grass fed, of course![/quote]

The SDA studies do not have the healthy user bias because they compare vegan SDA's to non-vegan SDA's. lololol learn to read.

And nothing regarding the choline?

Every point you bring up is shot down.

Keep bringing up the rat studies. Low carb diets are associated with increased mortality... Lower carbs = more animal protein and animal fat which has been proven in countless studies to be detrimental to human health. Unless you think having blocked arteries is somehow good for you. Maybe the blood vessels in your brain are getting blocked at this point because you keep losing these arguments.

Also, if supplementation is an indicator of a bad diet, then why does the ADA recommend all adults above age 50 take B12?

Why do 80% of B12 supplements go to livestock?

Why do they recommend people in Scandinavia, Canada, and other areas of the world closer to the world supplement with vitamin D?

Why do they recommend pregnant women supplement folate?

Maybe it's because people choose practicality over this appeal to nature logical fallacy that you are bent on.

As for the vegan memory champion, (and I can't believe I need to spell this out for you), but if a vegan diet were somehow detrimental to mental performance he wouldn't have won. So it's a non-issue.

Not only can't you read, but you also can't think. No wonder you flocked to a fad diet.

people closer to the world poles supplement with Vitamin D***

And, yes I eat a whole food plant based diet, but I am completely objective about it.

A bit over a year ago I wasn't vegan. I changed after reading things on both sides of the argument. I listened to Chris Kresser, read Lierre Kieth. I also read Dr. Gregor, listened to Dr. Joel Khan, etc.

I don't pretend a vegan diet is better for people in every way possible. Clearly if you want to lose weight in the short term, low carb is the way to go - and is much easier to do if you eat animal products. But it's also bad for you in the long run.

If you want to be a champion bodybuilder, I think eating animal protein is the way to go. Animal protein is very concentrated protein, and there is more variety of protein available if you eat animals. Plus, eating animal protein means you eat more saturated fad and cholesterol, which boosts testosterone, which could theoretically have a net positive impact on your athletic performance even when the inflammatory issues associated with meat are considered.

The same goes with distance running (sorry Sage), but it simply just remains to be seen if a vegan runner can be a world class runner. However, as I've said before, so few people are vegans (1-3%), and therefore so few runners are vegan, we have a 97-99% chance every year we won't have a vegan world class runner.

I like to think of the human body in terms of 3 things:

Health

Sense of wellbeing

Performance

You can optimize your body for any one of these, but any gain in one comes at the expense of the other once you get to diminishing returns. You can be a great bodybuilder on a vegan diet. But will you be world class? Not unless you are willing to sacrifice your health by taking steroids. You can live a long time on a vegan diet, but will you perform well athletically? Probably not. There are some athletes who are starting to buck this trend, but in my mind the jury is still out on whether or not a vegan diet is optimal for all areas of performance.

So there you go.

I will GLADLY change my diet in a heartbeat if the science says I should. So far, no such luck.

If you look at Sage Canaday's body as well to that of Scott Jurek, they have never been that lean, cut and well defined chiseled bodies. You see bodies of the the Kenyans and you see rocks hard abs. Could it be that eating to much soy increases estrogen levels in men and pack on a few pounds of fat?

Not that chiseled like me wrote:

If you look at Sage Canaday's body as well to that of Scott Jurek, they have never been that lean, cut and well defined chiseled bodies. You see bodies of the the Kenyans and you see rocks hard abs. Could it be that eating to much soy increases estrogen levels in men and pack on a few pounds of fat?

Doubtful.

There are/were elite runners who are much heavier than Sage who eat meat (Ben True, Solinsky).

The evidence seems to show that if you eat a high quality diet, your body will endeavour to maintain the muscle required to make your own unique bone structure efficient. Wider hips, broader shoulders, and taller people need more muscle just to twist and torque that wider structure than a narrowly built Kenyan. I think there have been some studies on the Kalenjin tribe in Kenyan and it shows they have extremely narrow lower legs which makes them naturally very efficient runners. Plus some people just develop lankier muscles. Some guys are just chunkier - and have these giant baseballs in their calf muscles.

I've been 150lbs for years - both before and post vegan.

Low carb diets are associated with increased mortality... Lower carbs = more animal protein and animal fat which has been proven in countless studies to be detrimental to human health. Unless you think having blocked arteries is somehow good for you. Maybe the blood vessels in your brain are getting blocked at this point because you keep losing these arguments.

PianoMan, many studies have found this, but there is a big problem here....VERY, VERY few people are eating grassfed meats. Almost none of the studies are using that. Meat from typical grain fed sources is hugely different in Omega6:3 ratio, often anywhere from 10-20:1. This is hugely towards the Omega6 spectrum and highly inflammatory...leading to expected results.

Grass fed red meats are consistently closer to 3-4:1 Omega6/3. This is within the typical healthy range (about 1:4 to 4:1) and solves virtually all of the above problems.

I don't advocate for the removal of veggies as YMMV does, but this idea that quality meat or fish is bad for you is not yet something studied, and the people using those diets are, anecdotally (since that's all we have) thriving. If you have to wait for studies to seriously consider that, I get that. But, it's important to realize almost all meat studies are not looking at healthy meats.

LM wrote:

PianoMan, many studies have found this, but there is a big problem here....VERY, VERY few people are eating grassfed meats. Almost none of the studies are using that. Meat from typical grain fed sources is hugely different in Omega6:3 ratio, often anywhere from 10-20:1. This is hugely towards the Omega6 spectrum and highly inflammatory...leading to expected results.

Grass fed red meats are consistently closer to 3-4:1 Omega6/3. This is within the typical healthy range (about 1:4 to 4:1) and solves virtually all of the above problems.

Really? Pretty much all meat is grass fed for most of its life. "Grass fed" means grass finished. That short time makes that much difference?

Piano_Man87 wrote:

I will GLADLY change my diet in a heartbeat if the science says I should. So far, no such luck.

You clearly are unable to think for yourself and constantly require institutional authority to approve your every move. If you were in fact a true scientist, properly trained, you would be able to discern for yourself whether a food or diet was beneficial without needing 26 institutionally-ordained sacraments, er, "studies" to confirm your every thought and move. Truly you dwell in a living informational hell of your own making (thoroughly engineered by your "authority" overlords), as so many societal automatons do nowadays. Meanwhile, I will keep running, climbing and jumping over the beaches, rocks, hills and mountains with true enjoyment and endless, pain-free energy (and culling a few longevity records along the way). While eating incredibly tasty and savory meat, fish and eggs. Bon appetit!

#meatheals #meatsaveslives

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1321KmgLcN/?igshid=tb5gf3ty6ldn

YMMV wrote:

You clearly are unable to think for yourself and constantly require institutional authority to approve your every move. If you were in fact a true scientist, properly trained, you would be able to discern for yourself whether a food or diet was beneficial without needing 26 institutionally-ordained sacraments, er, "studies" to confirm your every thought and move.

So we should ignore the pages and pages of links you post. Got it.

makes sense, thank you wrote:

YMMV wrote:

You clearly are unable to think for yourself and constantly require institutional authority to approve your every move. If you were in fact a true scientist, properly trained, you would be able to discern for yourself whether a food or diet was beneficial without needing 26 institutionally-ordained sacraments, er, "studies" to confirm your every thought and move.

So we should ignore the pages and pages of links you post. Got it.

You cute little frootcakes are so coy and capricious: "You only talk about your N=1, show us the studies!" then..."Hypocrite! posting studies!". A veggie brain is a frustrated, confused, passive-aggressive Tim Burton nightmare.

Ah yes. Mikaila Peterson.

She probably had a food allergy and the carnivore diet served as a pseudo elimination diet and eliminated the cause of her problems. So she feels better.

Doctors practise elimination diets all the time. Then gradually re introduce foods to see what causes the issues. It’s the scientific, methodological way to approach it.

I like to quote the famous Scott Jurek... anyone who focuses on how they feel after they eat will naturally move towards a plant based diet.

I tell my dad I feel better on a vegan diet. He says he feels fine eating meat. Then after every meal he wants a nap. Hmmmm........

YMMV wrote:

makes sense, thank you wrote:

So we should ignore the pages and pages of links you post. Got it.

You cute little frootcakes are so coy and capricious: "You only talk about your N=1, show us the studies!" then..."Hypocrite! posting studies!". A veggie brain is a frustrated, confused, passive-aggressive Tim Burton nightmare.

Dude, seriously, get help. I have never said any of those things. You're the one who goes back and forth between "all studies are wrong" and "except these that sorta kinda back up my view". I'm not a veggie. Just finished my 100% carnivore supper, although I did have bread earlier today. No veggies today, but I did have some yesterday, so maybe that affected my brain because I have no idea what your last sentence means.

Your unhinged lunacy is entertaining, but a bit concerning.

Almost all mass produced meat, the meat you find in typical supermarkets, is grain fed. Admittedly calves for about 6-9mo are often allowed to eat grass, but then are moved to feedlot for remainder of lives.

And yes, it does make a significant difference:

Lots of good stuff to unpack in that study, but yes it hugely changes of Omega6:3 ratio and other aspects of the meat. Grass fed meat is an extremely healthy food. Grain fed is bordering on junk food.

......And this just in, hot off the wires: Vegan Woody Kincaid just busted out a 12:58!! Imagine how fast he could have run if he cut out the spinach and quinoa and ate some bologna!!

Yeah we have more strokes having to read all the asinine articles like this

99% of beef cattle are grass fed until about 150 or so days prior to slaughtering. During that time they will be in a feed lot.

Unfortunately there is no USDA recognized standard for the grass fed designation. Nor are there requirements regarding the conditions by which grass fed cattle are raised. They may even be treated with hormones or antibiotics.

Unless you go to the ranch and pick out your steer you don’t know what you’re getting from so called grass fed.

Cheerio