Okay, you don't think he could have run faster chasing 2012 Rudisha. This is indeed what I call track ignorance, furthered by your comment "and in his last race he was a full second through the 400 faster than Rudisha in 2012 and was running wr pace till 700m. In both races he went out faster than London. Yet he still hasn't beaten his 2012 time." To think that it was advantageous to go out in 48.2x is laughable.
"He didn't need to be chasing anyone to run any harder or faster."
This is another gem.
seasoned ranker wrote:
Okay, you don't think he could have run faster chasing 2012 Rudisha. This is indeed what I call track ignorance, furthered by your comment "and in his last race he was a full second through the 400 faster than Rudisha in 2012 and was running wr pace till 700m. In both races he went out faster than London. Yet he still hasn't beaten his 2012 time." To think that it was advantageous to go out in 48.2x is laughable.
I didn't say it was advantageous to go out in 48.2 - in fact I said that race was ridiculous. Like your arguments. Everything said here to justify Amos is little more than "coulda woulda shoulda". Blather. He's had 7 years to improve on a performance that no other 18 year old - past or present - has got remotely near. He hasn't improved and your superior "track knowledge" doesn't make him any faster than the times he has actually run. You remind me of Ventolin and his postulations about what Ryun could have run. Are you by any chance related?
"in his last race he was a full second through the 400 faster than Rudisha in 2012 ...Yet he still hasn't beaten his 2012 time"
Do you know what the word "yet" means?
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seasoned ranker wrote:
"in his last race he was a full second through the 400 faster than Rudisha in 2012 ...Yet he still hasn't beaten his 2012 time"
Do you know what the word "yet" means?
It means he still hasn't done so after 7 years. It doesn't mean that he will. BTW, is your handle above a typo? It seems to me that it should read "seasoned wanker".
So no, you don't understand what it means. Got it.
Armstronglivs wrote:
seasoned ranker wrote:
"in his last race he was a full second through the 400 faster than Rudisha in 2012 ...Yet he still hasn't beaten his 2012 time"
Do you know what the word "yet" means?
It means he still hasn't done so after 7 years. It doesn't mean that he will. BTW, is your handle above a typo? It seems to me that it should read "seasoned wanker".
You are like any fanatic. You made up your mind and no facts will be able to change it.
It's OK. Amos will continue to run great times, clean, and you will continue to be a nobody on LRC like the rest of us.
Armstronglivs wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
The problem is you refuse to believe facts and instead make up your own reality.
He was rewarded for his silver medal at London with six cows, but last year he suffered with a thigh strain and a potentially more pernicious problem: fame.
"His elder sister Francinah warned he was becoming hostile to his family and was bragging that he could win races without training. He launched into a music career, calling himself DJ Zoroski. He crashed his car. Some feared he was losing his way."
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jul/31/david-rudisha-beaten-800m-nijel-amos-commonwealth-games-2014-athleticshttps://youtu.be/jM08cgEoLrc"Q. You suffered a near career ending injury back in 2013 when you tore your quadriceps. It forced you to miss the World Championships when you were seen as one of the favourites for Gold. Emotionally and psychologically, how were you able to overcome that setback?
A. It was a really tough one. It was one of the most confusing and heartbreaking times in my life and sometimes I sit back and ask myself how I got out of that one.
I wonder how I managed to triumph through and remain, as people always say, one of the elite athletes of the world.
But I guess the love and support from my team, management and most importantly my grandmother kept me going."
"Q. You came into the spotlight at a very young age, how have you been able to handle the pressure that comes with being a national and international icon?
A. You know it’s funny that you say that; people often forget that I came into the limelight at such a young age.
I was only 18 years old – an 18-year-old boy not from the city but from Marobela.
I was a teenager and people did not at the time allow me to make mistakes that all teenagers are bound to make.
But what kept me going is knowing that I had to provide for my family; I was raised by my Grandmother with nine children at home so I knew what was expected of me with the God-given talent I have"
https://www.thevoicebw.com/chasing-the-dream-with-zoro/3. I have a special pre-race routine
“Every time I leave my hotel room ahead of a race, I make a point of kneeling down and screaming out ‘I’m going to be a champion’.
“It started in 2013. I’d been out injured with a hamstring injury but I managed to run well in 1:44.71. I thought, ‘if I can run this well with an injury then the pre-race ritual works for me’ and it has remained ever since. I shout out ‘I’m going to be a champion’ and then say a short prayer
2019: "Asked if he can now consider himself back following years of mixed results, Zoro as Amos is affectionately known had this to say: “I was never out of the game but I had injuries time and that affected my performance. Now I have got my health back and I can handle more intensity in training hence my performance now. You know in the past I could not do more than three sessions a week.” He is currently based at the Nike Oregon training centre in USA under the tutelage of Coach Mark Rowland"
You don't know anything about Amos and his story. Why do you pretend you do?
It is just a story. But I did like the bit about the cows.
Alright well obviously you are going to deny fact from multiple sources across many years. So any reasonable discussion with you is forfeit. And you are not worth anyone's time.
Is your alter ego Coevett?
Armstronglivs wrote:
seasoned ranker wrote:
Okay, you don't think he could have run faster chasing 2012 Rudisha. This is indeed what I call track ignorance, furthered by your comment "and in his last race he was a full second through the 400 faster than Rudisha in 2012 and was running wr pace till 700m. In both races he went out faster than London. Yet he still hasn't beaten his 2012 time." To think that it was advantageous to go out in 48.2x is laughable.
I didn't say it was advantageous to go out in 48.2 - in fact I said that race was ridiculous. Like your arguments. Everything said here to justify Amos is little more than "coulda woulda shoulda". Blather. He's had 7 years to improve on a performance that no other 18 year old - past or present - has got remotely near. He hasn't improved and your superior "track knowledge" doesn't make him any faster than the times he has actually run. You remind me of Ventolin and his postulations about what Ryun could have run. Are you by any chance related?
I'd contend that lack of improvement would support no drug use. Unless you're saying, he was drugging as a teen, stopped, and now is only getting back to that level because he's clean now, but not then?
I hope Amos is getting proper treatment on his femoris bicep. I hope his training is measured. I assume Amos is avoiding fast 50m & 100m sprint sessions. I hope both Amos and Brazier have smooth routes to 2019 W.C. final. I hope both men do not have to race sub-1:45, first round and I hope both men do not have to race sub-1:44, semi-finals. I hope the first 200m is passed between 24.00 to 24.25 by both men. I hope both men pass 400m between 49.00 to 49.25. I hope 600m is passed by both men between 74.00 and 74.25. I hope both men race sub-1:41.50, 2019 W.C. 800m final.
seasoned ranker wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
He didn't need Rudisha to run 1.41xx from the front this year, and in his last race he was a full second through the 400 faster than Rudisha in 2012 and was running wr pace till 700m. In both races he went out faster than London. Yet he still hasn't beaten his 2012 time. But the glaring fact is that there hasnt been another top 800 runner who hasn't improved on their time as an 18 year old - and substantially. Amos has had plenty of chances to
improve on his pr in the last 7 years. He hasn't. Yet other great 800 runners, like Cruz and Rudisha, continued to improve into their 20's. No one here has also explained why Rudisha - who is probably the greatest 800m runner in history - was over 5 seconds slower than Amos at the same age and even at his brilliant peak, at London, was less than a second faster than an unheralded 18 year old. I would say "track ignorance" abounds in droves here amongst those who think this is all perfectly legit by Amos.
You act like him having a pacer pulling him through only 400m at a time significantly faster than London 2012 is advantageous for him running a PR. Why?
Do you honestly believe that having 2012 Rudisha to chase in the race where Amos ran 1:41 this year wouldn't have resulted in a new PR?
The same could be said about anyone running at their peak, being paced and drafted all the way to the tape behind Rudisha in his London WR! Had Kipketer in 97 or Coe in 81 been behind him, then they would both have run quite a bit faster than Amos did.
The truly great 800m world records and times have largely come about by running the 2nd lap solo, not with a 6’ plus rabbit taking them all the way to the tape.
Btw, Amos’ splits at 200, 400 and 600m were almost identical to those of Kipketer when he ran 1:41.24 on the same track in 97. In that race Kipketer managed to hang on for a 1:41 clocking, while Amos faded to almost 1:43.0. That would suggest that he isn’t in WR form and I doubt he would have run much quicker off those splits over the last 200m, even if Rudisha (who would have known 48.4 was too quick) was in front of him.
Deanouk wrote:
seasoned ranker wrote:
You act like him having a pacer pulling him through only 400m at a time significantly faster than London 2012 is advantageous for him running a PR. Why?
Do you honestly believe that having 2012 Rudisha to chase in the race where Amos ran 1:41 this year wouldn't have resulted in a new PR?
The same could be said about anyone running at their peak, being paced and drafted all the way to the tape behind Rudisha in his London WR! Had Kipketer in 97 or Coe in 81 been behind him, then they would both have run quite a bit faster than Amos did.
The truly great 800m world records and times have largely come about by running the 2nd lap solo, not with a 6’ plus rabbit taking them all the way to the tape.
Btw, Amos’ splits at 200, 400 and 600m were almost identical to those of Kipketer when he ran 1:41.24 on the same track in 97. In that race Kipketer managed to hang on for a 1:41 clocking, while Amos faded to almost 1:43.0. That would suggest that he isn’t in WR form and I doubt he would have run much quicker off those splits over the last 200m, even if Rudisha (who would have known 48.4 was too quick) was in front of him.
I don't really disagree with anything you said.
What I have concluded is that Nigel Amos and Seb Coe are equivalents over 800m, both come from speed, both could only earn Silver Medals in the 800m and both could not run under 1:41.5. The only advantage Amos has is that he is a faster 400m runner, more of a sprinter, whereas Coe had all the resources at his disposal with a famous father and the best of the UK's resources.
REAL. wrote:
What I have concluded is that Nigel Amos and Seb Coe are equivalents over 800m, both come from speed, both could only earn Silver Medals in the 800m and both could not run under 1:41.5. The only advantage Amos has is that he is a faster 400m runner, more of a sprinter, whereas Coe had all the resources at his disposal with a famous father and the best of the UK's resources.
And I say both are clean. Neither one has ever tested positive for anything or been caught up in a drug scandal or competed for a PED-powered nation (e.g., Russia & Morocco). Let's enjoy and celebrate their accomplishments from the different eras they competed in.
Armweaklivs wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
It means he still hasn't done so after 7 years. It doesn't mean that he will. BTW, is your handle above a typo? It seems to me that it should read "seasoned wanker".
You are like any fanatic. You made up your mind and no facts will be able to change it.
It's OK. Amos will continue to run great times, clean, and you will continue to be a nobody on LRC like the rest of us.
Facts aren't your strong point. He hasn't run faster than 2012. What "facts" change that?
seasoned ranker wrote:
So no, you don't understand what it means. Got it.
That something hasn't happened doesn't mean it is inevitable that it will. Clearly, you haven't grasped that point yet. Case in point. I doubt you will. Yet you still haven't corrected the typo in your handle.
seasoned ranker wrote:
Deanouk wrote:
The same could be said about anyone running at their peak, being paced and drafted all the way to the tape behind Rudisha in his London WR! Had Kipketer in 97 or Coe in 81 been behind him, then they would both have run quite a bit faster than Amos did.
The truly great 800m world records and times have largely come about by running the 2nd lap solo, not with a 6’ plus rabbit taking them all the way to the tape.
Btw, Amos’ splits at 200, 400 and 600m were almost identical to those of Kipketer when he ran 1:41.24 on the same track in 97. In that race Kipketer managed to hang on for a 1:41 clocking, while Amos faded to almost 1:43.0. That would suggest that he isn’t in WR form and I doubt he would have run much quicker off those splits over the last 200m, even if Rudisha (who would have known 48.4 was too quick) was in front of him.
I don't really disagree with anything you said.
He just undermined your prior argument. Records - pr's - don't require a 6'-plus rabbit to the tape. Rudisha didn't need one. Neither did Coe or Kipketer.
Reverting to the thread title, which is about Brazier, he showed you can win and pr impressively by ignoring pacemakers and front-runners and simply running your own race, - which he did by trailing a field that went out too fast. Intelligence clearly plays a part in successful racing. As Cram commented, Amos showed "how not to run a race".
but what about wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I didn't say it was advantageous to go out in 48.2 - in fact I said that race was ridiculous. Like your arguments. Everything said here to justify Amos is little more than "coulda woulda shoulda". Blather. He's had 7 years to improve on a performance that no other 18 year old - past or present - has got remotely near. He hasn't improved and your superior "track knowledge" doesn't make him any faster than the times he has actually run. You remind me of Ventolin and his postulations about what Ryun could have run. Are you by any chance related?
I'd contend that lack of improvement would support no drug use. Unless you're saying, he was drugging as a teen, stopped, and now is only getting back to that level because he's clean now, but not then?
1.41 at 18 is doped, and in his case I believe that at 25 it still is.