How talented of an athlete is a high schooler that can run sub 50 400m AND sub 15 5k?

Predictor wrote:

I am sticking with 10. Yes there would be 25 with 50.x and 15:0x but not 49.x and 14:xx.

This seems like a pretty good estimate.

Man Elias Geydon is a name I haven't heard for a long time.

I was actually in the same race as him in the 1500M back at junior nationals in 2007 I believe. Kid was a monster talent and just absolutely crushed the field. I feel like I didn't hear much about him after highschool.

no divide by 5 wrote:

Predictor wrote:

Probably 10 kids every year. Kids like Hocker or Affolder can do it and they aren't even close to the top of the mile list which is where I would expect most to be.

Neither are close enough to racing FAT sub-50 400m. Others have stated 1500m/1600m/one mile high school kids usually are not going to get in starting blocks are race 400m. If not, show us a sub-1:51 800m (not an 800m on a relay leg). There are not ten guys every year racing sub-1:51 800m and also in sub-15 5000m condition.

I’d take it a step further and say that some years there are barely 10 guys racing sub 1:51 800 period. This thread is another classic example of the LRC mindset that distance running takes work, and sprinting requires some kind of innate natural running ability. The facts are that high school 1600m-5k runners train very differently from high school 400m runners, and despite how fast (Insert distance prodigy from whatever year here) ran that blazing last lap, they simply do not train their bodies to run in the same way as a 400m runner. A fast kick does not equate to fast sprinting, look at Farah. Look at Rupp.

A bunch of names have been provided of guys who did it over the past few years or at least ran sub 50 in the 400 and 15:20 in XC so you know they exist but you still don't want to recognize it? The question is how talented a guy must be to do it, not how many actually did it. The US has many kids run 9 minutes in the 3200 but they never run a track 5k so you just have to look at how many of them did it in the 400.

Reading comprehension wrote:

A bunch of names have been provided of guys who did it over the past few years or at least ran sub 50 in the 400 and 15:20 in XC so you know they exist but you still don't want to recognize it? The question is how talented a guy must be to do it, not how many actually did it. The US has many kids run 9 minutes in the 3200 but they never run a track 5k so you just have to look at how many of them did it in the 400.

Well, I've known plenty of sprinters who could crack 11 seconds in the 100 who had a difficult time posting even a 50.x in the 400, so to me being able to run sub-50 is pretty impressive. Pair that kind of speed with the aerobic ability to drop a 14:xx in the 5000, and you've got someone who is probably looking at either having the ability to crack 1:50 in the 800 or run a time pretty close to 4:00-4:02 in the 1600. I.e, if you can run 49.x and 14:xx, you're extremely talented.

Generally, I think that is right, but re Coe, he won the English Schools 3000m Intermediate Age Championship at 16 in 8:41 (close to 15:00 5k ability), and at 18 won the Northern Junior Championships 3000m in 8:14.8. I don't see a sub 50 sec 400m at that stage, but he did run 36.2 for 300m just three days before the 3000m. He very probably had the capability to break 50 sec/15 min with days of each other.

That would be pretty rare!

Surprised no one has brought up our new 1500 national champion, Craig Engels. He went sub 1:50 and sub 9 as a high schooler. I would be shocked if he never had a sub 50 to his name and think he probably had the endurance for a sub 15 (and possibly has some sub 15 3 mile results to back this claim even more). Not sure how many other high schoolers went sub 1:50 and sub 9 (I think Centro is one) but those guys would be prime candidates for me.

If two guys from Iowa did it at the same time, we don't need to come up with anymore names. Obviously there are 10-20 guys who can do it every year.

Look no further than my favorite guy from D3 out of Carleton.

https://www.tfrrs.org/athletes/5017990/Carleton/Donson_Cook-Gallardo.html

I think a lot of you underestimate just how hard a sub 50 is to a high school distance runner. 50 is probably on par with a 1:50-1:52, not a ton of sub 15 guys in that category and especially not the other way around.

If the sub 15 athlete is coming off XC season and his best event (probably more or less his favorite event) is the 800m and he does 800m training, okay maybe he gets to a sub 50. But I doubt any HS'er who's training for the mile or 2 mile, even assuming a sub 16 PR could simultaneously possess sub 50 speed.

Anyways, this thread makes me think of Donavan Brazier, 15:20 in XC and clearly could go sub 50 considering he ran 1:47. If he's only doing 35mpw and was doing 25mpw in college, I imagine he wasn't doing a ton in HS. He's an example of a naturally talented 400/800/mile type who could run sub 15, but was likely FAR from the training required to do it.

Chad Hall did

Ethan Hussey 16 and 50/1:49/3:46/14:29.

Hoping to improve his 1500m pb tonight at the BMC.

https://www.runjumpthrow.com/

Ethan Hussey improves his 1500m pb by over half a second to 3:45.85. That's over 2 seconds faster than Steve Cram at the same age. Got blocked a bit in the home straight I think too. Scotland's Kane Elliott just missed his own 800m pb but dominated his race.

Smorbun wrote:

dmitlof1 wrote:

Not always true of course. I know a 9:10 high school 3200 runner who could only do about a 58 in the 400.

0% chance a 9:10 HS 3200 runner could only run a 58 sec 400m. Not sure why anyone ever says/believes nonsense like that.

Seth Hirsch

Even Iowa Can wrote:

If two guys from Iowa did it at the same time, we don't need to come up with anymore names. Obviously there are 10-20 guys who can do it every year.

What about if no guys from Iowa actually did it and virtually no one anywhere ever actually does it? That suggests to me that it takes one-in-a-million talent like Webb, Arroyo, and maybe a handful of others each generation.

Well duh! The US doesn't run the 5k so there aren't going to be many guys actually breaking 15. But there are dozens of guys running 4:05 or 9 flat which means they would break 15 minutes. You math of 1 in a million is correct however because there are 8 million boys in high school and if 8 boys can do it every year, that is about 1 in 1 million. So I will go with your number of 8 kids per year. The Iowa kids that were in high school at the same time a few years ago were Josh Evans 49-1:50-4:04-9:00-15:10XC. So I guess you can argue that he didn't actually run sub 15 but 15:10 in XC coupled with a 4:04 pretty much guarantees a 14:45. Ryan Schweizer ran 49-1:50-4:05- with a 15:20XC and state XC title so I am giving him a sub 15 on a track without breaking a sweat. His sister has run 15 flat if that makes you feel better. I believe both guys were 3rd in the dream mile.