Discus.
Discus.
Do these even exist?
Range Rover wrote:
Discus.
There was a guy on my college team that had those PRs and he ran 4:10 for the mile.
These guys usually run sub 1:52 and sub 4:08. Top D1 talent most years.
Range Rover wrote:
Discus.
Arjun Jha of Indiana University was a 49 second 400 guy and ran 14:56 in high school in Ohio. He also ran 1:50 in the 800 in a relay.
He then ran 13:56 as a true freshman this past spring.
How talented is that? He's one of the most talented distance runners in the nation.
Condemn wrote:
Do these even exist?
Jakob probably could have broken 50 and 13 by the time he graduated in an ideal race. Most 4:0x milers won't have trouble breaking 15, and a lot of the speed-oriented milers can break 50.
Range Rover wrote:
Discus.
An unfair question. I assume you mean 5K XC. Some guys never get a chance to race 5K XC on a fast course. Some race 5K XC on a very fast course. XC courses may have been measured properly but some of the corners are rounded off. I am thinking of XC courses in farm fields. Most so-called sub-50 400m raced by 800/1500 runners are relay legs or time trials with rolling starts. Very few guys who train as 800/1500 athletes have a legit sub-50 FAT 400m as teenagers.
I haven't looked, but I bet it's very rare to find someone who has actually accomplished this. But it is less an issue of talent and more an issue of opportunity and priority. The 5k isn't run much during the track season in high school, but the Purdy equivalent of a 14:59 5k is just 9:19. Most high school guys are not aerobically developed enough to run the 5k at the same level as their 2 mile, but my guess is that most guys that can run 9:05 for 2 miles can run under 15:00 for 5k. Most of them don't. Most distance runners also do not run the open 400m and if they do, they aren't running it in big competitions late in the season. The Purdy equivalent to a 50 second quarter is just over 4:21 for the mile. I don't believe that all the guys that run 4:21 can run under 50, but once you start getting down to 4:13, a lot of them probably could. A lot of those guys are probably also guys that can run under 9:05, and thus probably under 15:00.
So is a 4:13/9:05 runner talented? Yes. But not otherworldly. There are probably 25 guys a year who are talented enough to do it. When you look at the guys who actually do it, I bet the number is very low.
keepin it real wrote:
Condemn wrote:
Do these even exist?
Jakob probably could have broken 50 and 13 by the time he graduated in an ideal race. Most 4:0x milers won't have trouble breaking 15, and a lot of the speed-oriented milers can break 50.
Indeed.
High School is up to 18, right?
In the UK, Ethan Hussey turned 16 only a few months ago and has run 50.5, 1:49, 3:46, and 14:29 (in a road race when he was still 15 I think). I believe he is trying to run under 50 seconds this season.
https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=525876&viewby=dateMax Burgin I think did a 47 second 400m relay leg last year and would likely break 15 minutes for 5K now.
I do think it is closer to otherwordly than you are stating. I do not see a 4:13/9:05 high school kid able to race sub-50 FAT 400m. We usually see sub-50 400m raced by high level high school 800m runners, if anyone. Most who are racing 49.99/1:50.99 40/800 are not ever racing anything longer than 1500/1600/one mile. Coach Scott Christensen in a Running Times article about 8 years ago said all four of his sub-4 guys who went on to race sub-4 mile around the time they were in college were sub-50 400m guys before graduation. Technically, that may be correct. I believe all four were sub-50 fit 400m by college graduation. None of the four raced a 1:50.xx 800m in high school which would have indicated possible sub-50 400m fitness. I just think this whole thing is rare. Rare like Rod Dixon, John Walker, Steve Cram, Steve Ovett, Filbert Bayi, Thomas Wessinghage, Martin Liquori, James Ryun and Alan Webb rare. Ben Blankenship is one of Stillwater four. I do not think he was able to do it in high school. While in high school, Blankenship had no great 1:50.xx type 800m races. Steve Holman, may have been close to FAT sub-50 400m fitness in high school. I doubt Holman was sub-15 5K fit in high school. I know S Coe was a FAT sub-50 400m guy as an 18 year old teenager, but I doubt he would have been able to break 15 for 5000m as an 18 year old.
As with every HS question- the answer is Alan Webb and by a considerable margin in both
harder than you think wrote:
I do think it is closer to otherwordly than you are stating. I do not see a 4:13/9:05 high school kid able to race sub-50 FAT 400m. We usually see sub-50 400m raced by high level high school 800m runners, if anyone. Most who are racing 49.99/1:50.99 40/800 are not ever racing anything longer than 1500/1600/one mile.
Grant Fisher had 49s 400m speed in HS, and ran 3:59/14:13. He became a high school legend due to his insane sprint finishes over the last 100-200m. He had the basic speed, just wasn't good at sustaining it on an 800m since his coach never let him do much speedwork (he capped his 400m reps at 60 sec pace which was just mile pace for him).
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
harder than you think wrote:
I do think it is closer to otherwordly than you are stating. I do not see a 4:13/9:05 high school kid able to race sub-50 FAT 400m. We usually see sub-50 400m raced by high level high school 800m runners, if anyone. Most who are racing 49.99/1:50.99 40/800 are not ever racing anything longer than 1500/1600/one mile.
Grant Fisher had 49s 400m speed in HS, and ran 3:59/14:13. He became a high school legend due to his insane sprint finishes over the last 100-200m. He had the basic speed, just wasn't good at sustaining it on an 800m since his coach never let him do much speedwork (he capped his 400m reps at 60 sec pace which was just mile pace for him).
Fisher, a high school kid with such endurance and stamina. He has always raced 800m slowly for a sub-4 one miler. He cannot race 800m any faster than 1:51.9 now. I am certain you cannot find a sub-50 FAT 400m raced in a real track meet for Grant Fisher while he was in high school.
Probably 10 kids every year. Kids like Hocker or Affolder can do it and they aren't even close to the top of the mile list which is where I would expect most to be.
I doubt G Fisher wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
Grant Fisher had 49s 400m speed in HS, and ran 3:59/14:13. He became a high school legend due to his insane sprint finishes over the last 100-200m. He had the basic speed, just wasn't good at sustaining it on an 800m since his coach never let him do much speedwork (he capped his 400m reps at 60 sec pace which was just mile pace for him).
Fisher, a high school kid with such endurance and stamina. He has always raced 800m slowly for a sub-4 one miler. He cannot race 800m any faster than 1:51.9 now. I am certain you cannot find a sub-50 FAT 400m raced in a real track meet for Grant Fisher while he was in high school.
Lots of natural speed and sprinting from soccer. He invested more time in soccer training than in running, and soccer is great at recruiting fast twitch muscles due to all the sprinting. He never had a good 800m time because he doesn't take it seriously, and to be good at 800m he would need to do more anaerobic speedwork sessions which his HS coach never did with him. Look at some races where Fisher destroyed entire HS fields on the last 200m, he closed in sub 25 many times.
Predictor wrote:
Probably 10 kids every year. Kids like Hocker or Affolder can do it and they aren't even close to the top of the mile list which is where I would expect most to be.
Neither are close enough to racing FAT sub-50 400m. Others have stated 1500m/1600m/one mile high school kids usually are not going to get in starting blocks are race 400m. If not, show us a sub-1:51 800m (not an 800m on a relay leg). There are not ten guys every year racing sub-1:51 800m and also in sub-15 5000m condition.
At least 10 per year. Karissa Schweizer's brother ran 49-1:50-4:05-9:15 in HS. He could have broken 15 in the 5k. At the same time another kid in Iowa ran 49-1:50-4:04-9:00. These are 2 random kids from Iowa doing it. Pretty sure states like California or Illinois or NJ would have more than Iowa.
Fisher closing a 1500m race with a 51s 400m despite running on the outside: (3:03->3:54)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUSXnl_pfmk
Fisher destroying Justyn Knight from behind in the last 100m of NCAA 5k finals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRS-aOGHYMk
Say what you want, I find it hard to believe to be able to close in 51 without at least 49s 400m speed.
You are correct. Fisher has had 49 second speed since junior year of HS. And his in-state rival Brazier could have done it too.
Former Iowa Great wrote:
You are correct. Fisher has had 49 second speed since junior year of HS. And his in-state rival Brazier could have done it too.
According to you Grant Fisher fans, Fisher needs to start a thread: Why can't I race sub-1:51.8 800m? What is wrong with me?