Sub 2h30 Fall Marathon - The Quest for Amateur Glory continues!

Oh boy, here we go again lads. After a blundered attempt in the Spring, I'm up for New York in November. Current training is going well and I'm hitting the 80mpw point as of this week. Probably will get up to 90 by the end of the month. Keeping expectations humble this time around, so current goal is low 2:30s but hoping to adjust that to sub 2:30 based on how my training progresses.

I get that it's Week 2, but your tempo run pace is too slow. You need to run 5:43 pace regardless of the distance if you ever want to hold it for 26.2. Same reason our guys trying to OTQ tempo at 5:18 and progress from a 4M tempo at the start of the season, eventually adding volume up to 15M during hell week.

First week of training is in the books. It certainly wasn't a great start to the marathon training, but it was a start nonetheless. Missed a few runs due to life just getting in the way and the heat did not help with the quality of the runs I did get in. Looking forward to cooler weather as the training picks up in the coming weeks/months. Here are the dirty details:

Monday 7/29 - off

Tuesday 7/30 - 8 easy (~7:00 pace)

Wednesday 7/31 - 8 easy (~7:10 pace)

Thursday 8/1 - off

Friday 8/3 - 3 warm-up, 3 mile tempo (17:10), 3 cool down. 9 miles total.

Saturday 8/3 - 14 easy (~7:10 pace) went out mid day for this one and that was a mistake. Last couple miles were a real struggle with the temp getting up around 90 and not much in the way of shade on the route.

Sunday 8/4 - 6 easy (7:00 pace)

Total mileage for the week: 45

Definitely have a long way to go and might not have enough time to get where I want to be, but still making the attempt. Now have 16 weeks to go until the race. Plan over the next three weeks is to get the weekly mileage up to 60-70 on 6-7 days running and get the long run up to 17-18 miles. Then going to start the 12 week 70-85 mpw training plan from Pfitz's advanced marathoning, 2nd Edition at the end of August. If anyone has had success with or other thoughts on those plans, I'd love to hear your input as this will be my first time following an actual training plan for a marathon build up.

My week of 7/29 to 8/4:

Monday AM: 6 in 41:38

Monday PM: 5 in 36:50

Tuesday AM: 3 in 21:32

Tuesday PM: 19 minutes warmup, 5K race in 16:24, long cooldown of around 1:10 and 9.5 miles

Wednesday AM: 8 in 57:00

Wednesday PM: 9 in 1:06:51

Thursday AM: 14.24 in 1:37:54 (included 5 strides at the end of the run)

Friday AM: 3.63 in 25:01

Friday PM: 7.95 in 54:08

Saturday AM: 10.1 in 1:08:50

Sunday PM: 20 in 2:13:46

102 total, wasn't particularly thrilled with the 5K race. It was crazy hot, around 90 with heat index of 100. Ran the first 2 miles solid (5:08 for each of them) and then hit a hill and slowed way down to around 5:30 for the 3rd mile. Came in second, winner was about 10 sec ahead of me the whole way. Even more of a bummer that he slowed down as much as I did and I couldn't catch him.

Happy with the week though and I feel like I'm in pretty good shape considering how much time I still have before my sub 2:30 attempt.

Here are the last three weeks. Legs are trashed, and there no really impressive sessions, but I think this is headed in the right direction. Ten weeks to go.

Week of 7/15 to 7/21 (92 miles)

Mo: 10 @ 7:23

Tu: 10 @ 7:21 / Flew back from Detroit in the morning and had to run after work. 94 + 72*.

We: AM - 10 @ 7:25; PM - 4 easy

Th: AM - 4800 16:54, 3’ jog, 1600 (5:44), 10 total. Failed 3-2-1 workout. Hot and frustrated. 83 + 75, sunny, and breezy. PM - 4 easy

Fr: AM - 10 @ 7:40; PM - 4 “easy” (103 heat index in midday sun)

Sa: 20 @ ~6:49 with breaks, 81 + 73 at the start (6 a.m.), up to 87 + 74 at the end.

Su: 10 @ 7:53

Week of 7/22 to 7/28 (104 miles)

Mo: AM - 10 @ 7:40; PM - 4 easy

Tu: AM - 10 progressive: 7:27, 7:05, 6:41, 6:22, 6:15, 5:47, 5:39, 5:40, 5:36, 5:31; PM - 5 easy

We: AM - 8x1k @ 3:19.3 avg. w 200 (1’) jog, 12 total, mild 71 + 63 and sunny; PM - 4 pretty easy

Th: AM - 10 @ 8:29; PM - 5 easy

Fr: AM - 10 @ 7:42; PM - 4 easy

Sa: 20 @ 6:44 (71 + 65 to 77 + 67, sun much of the last 7)

Su: 10 @ 8:14

Week of 7/29 to 8/4 (100 miles)

Mo: 14 @ 7:56 / 92 + 65 in the midday sun

Tu: AM - 10 @ 7:37; PM - 5 easy

We: 10k track tempo in 34:44 (5:33/1600), 12 total, 77 + 66 and cloudy

Th: AM - 10 @ 8:16; PM - 5 easy

Fr: AM - 10 @ 7:25 w/ 6 x 30” hills; PM - 4 easy

Sa: 20 @ 6:49 / 76 + 72, sun by the end

Su: 10 @ 8:10

*Temperature + dew point

Nowhere near as fast as you guys (hopefully in the general vicinity at some point) but I followed this thread last time and it is by far the best thing about this site. Keep it up and VintageSeltzer or anyone else running NYC I'll be cheering for you out there.

Despite living in Brooklyn, I will not be running NYC marathon. I will be running Philadelphia Marathon. I still have PTSD from bonking and having to climb 5th avenue in 2017.

As of now, I am shooting for something in the 2:31-2:34 range. I think I can break 2:30, but probably not quite there yet.

Here are my past two weeks of training:

July 22-28

Monday: 8 Easy

Tuesday: 10.4 Easy

Wednesday: 12.1 miles total. 4 mile at Marathon Pace (5:50), 8 x 200 36 or 37 down to 33 ( easy workout in prep for race)

Thursday: 9.8 easy

Friday: 5.2 easy

Saturday: 17.8 total. 5 Mile race in hilly Central Park 26:45 (5:21 pace)

Sunday: 14.8 miles easy to the beach

Total: 78.3

July 29-August 4

Monday: 8 mile easy

Tuesday: 11.1 easy

Wednesday: 12 total: 16 x 400 with 1 min jog ( 78 down to 73)

Thursday: 13.2 miles easy

Friday: 11 miles easy

Saturday: 8.1 miles easy w. 10 uphill strides

Sunday: 17.8 miles w. 10 x half mile on (5:40-5:25 uphill and down hill) and half mile float (~6:30)

Total: 81.5

Maybe someone of you guys want to run a guaranteed sub 2:30 marathon ? Then it`s just to follow this for free….

M: 50-60 min easy 6:50- 6:55 mile pace

T: 20 X 400m at 73-74 sec, rec= 120 bpm

We: 50 min easy 6:55 mile pace

Th: LT interval 6-8 x mile at 5:20-5:22 min , rec= 120 bpm

F: 50 min easy 6:55 mile pace

Sa: 90 min - 2 hours 40 min easy 6:50-6:55 mile pace

Su: RESTDAY

gOOD LUCK! ))

- Fly on the wings of magic! -

BergLaufer wrote:

Mon 7

Tues AM 10 w/ 10 x 1k w/ 400 jog

Wed 12

Thurs 9

Fri 12

Sat AM 7 PM 8

Sun 6

Total: 71

Mon AM 15 miles with 9 @ marathon effort

Tues AM 7 easy w/ 7 hill reps PM 7

Last Few Weeks of Training:

July 15-21

M: 2 hr bike

T: 70 min incline treadmill

W: Aussie Quarters (non-stop workout of 400 in 75, 200 floats in 45 for 3.1 miles) 12.5 miles total + 80 min bike ride

TH: 60 min incline treadmill + 3.5 p.m. miles easy

F: 11.3 miles 7:10 pace

SA: 20 miles 6:05 pace

SU: 2 hr 21 min bike ride

Total: 61.4 miles

July 22-28

M: 12.2 miles 2500ft elevation gain trail run

T: 11 miles 7:20 pace

W: 20 x 1k on/off (3:20/3:45) 15.8 miles total

TH: 60 min incline treadmill

F: 3.8 miles 7:24 pace

SA: 26.3 miles 6:15 pace

SU: 3 hr 27 min bike

Total: 75.2 miles

July 29-August 4

(I had a cold this week so I took it really easy)

M: Rest

T: 30 min incline treadmill

W: 9.3 miles 7:30 pace

TH: 30 min incline treadmill + 45 min bike ride

F: 60 min incline treadmill

SA: 11.6 miles 7:15 pace

SU: 11.5 miles 7:04 pace

Total: 47.6 miles

Looking forward to following and contributing to this thread. Ran 2:44 last October in Chicago and 2:39 in Boston. Running Berlin in September this year with the aim of getting as close as I can to 2:30 before a real attempt at London 2020.

For now, I'm in week 5 of training in a 12 week build up.

Summary of weeks 1 to 4 with anything notable:

Week 1: 82 miles Q1: 7*800 w/ 200 jog (av. 2:32) / Q2: 10 mile @ MP (av. 6:05)

Week 2: 88 miles Q1: 4*1200 w/ 400 jog (av. 3:51) / Q2: 2*2.5 mile @ T w/ 90s jog (av. 5:32) Q3: 22 miles @ 6:50

Week 3: 91 miles Q1: 3*1k w/ 200 jog (av. 3:06), 6*200 (av. 32) / Q2: 12 mile @ MP (av. 6:05)

Week 4: 86 miles Q1: 5k race 15:49 / Q2: 3*10 mins @ T w/ 90s jog (av. 5:55, 5:59, 5:40) / Q3: 5*(1k@95% MP (av. 6:20), 3.8k @ MP (av. 5:54))

Have a rest week this week (mostly jogging 50-60 miles and then a 4 week block similar to the above.

I personally think you are crazy for not making the full attempt at 2:30 at Berlin. Your fitness already seems close and you have 7 weeks of training left. Your T pace on week 4 was a bit slower than I would hope, but you ran a fast 5k before it, so that is justified. I think if you can get your track workouts to be sub 5 (2:30, 3:07, 3:45) in the next block you should go for it. Keep up the good work!

Shane33 wrote:

I personally think you are crazy for not making the full attempt at 2:30 at Berlin. Your fitness already seems close and you have 7 weeks of training left. Your T pace on week 4 was a bit slower than I would hope, but you ran a fast 5k before it, so that is justified. I think if you can get your track workouts to be sub 5 (2:30, 3:07, 3:45) in the next block you should go for it. Keep up the good work!

I’d have to agree. His Q1 workouts/race were beyond what I was hitting shortly before a 2:30 at Boston this spring. The mileage is sufficient. Maybe throw more emphasis on the long runs and tempos soon.

Double Bagel, how did those prior marathon attempts unfold?

Week of 8/3 - 8/11.

Monday AM 8 PM 4.4

Tuesday AM 3 WU 2 miles at 5:40, 1 minute off 1 mile at 5:40 1 min off 1 mile at 5:40 3 CD. PM

Wednesday PM 9 with a 1.5 stretch at 5:45 pace to take a segment. Yes, I am that guy.

Thursday AM 8 PM 3

Friday AM 3 WU followed by 12 x 2 on 1 off. On stretches averaged 5:25 pace. Half on a track but then got bored at went to the road.

Saturday 2 WU, Hilly 10 miler at 58:11. Very little competition. 1 guy with me thru 4 then he fell off. Tried to stay around 5:50s the rest of the way. 29:10 at 5. Won by a couple minutes. 2 CD.

Sunday 20 on a very hilly route with a group. 2:19.

Pretty good week. 84 miles beginning to gain some confidence that I can do this.

Goal race is Mid October.

had a decent week, which was basically a "pre-week" for starting my programme.

From next week on it is 16 to go to Valencia (Dec 1st)

for those who followed the last two years' threads my main point of concern are work travels; i have three big ones; one in august, one in september and one in november, the three involving at least 6+ hours of time difference and a lot of work, which makes high mileage / quality workout very challenging in these weeks.

good luck everyone!!

Week 0

Aug 05-11

17 ---> 16 weeks to go

total: ~ 65

Monday:

am: 7 easy

pm: 5 easy

Tuesday

pm: 8 easy

Wednesday

am: 6 easy

pm: 9 in total including 6 x Mile with 2' jog - 5.30 / 5.25 / 5.24 / 5.23 / 5.18 / 5.13

thursday:

pm: 6 easy

friday:

pm: 5 tempo (~ 5.40)

saturday

off

Sunday

20 miles @ 6.30

That’s encouraging. Agree that T session was way off what I was hoping but as you say that 5k was a few days before. For context I’ve blow up many a time at the marathon distance. In April 2014 I ran splits of 1:38 / 2:53 and then in April 2018 ran 1:22 / 1:48. Both at London. I know those races are anomalies due to weather or overtraining going in but they still in my mind even when I’ve run better at other distances. So I think I’m going in conservatively as I’ve paid a very heavy price a number of times. But yeah, cheers for the support and I’ll see how this next 4 weeks goes before committing to any pace.

Chicago I went in after a pretty poor build up. No real race or sessions of distinction and just couldn’t be consistent with mileage to feel confident on race day. But put down an even pace (splits 1:22 / 1:22) and got a marginal PB. For Boston I followed P&D 70-85 18W with a few tweaks and benefitted from higher mileage and dialling down the track work. I ran 1:19 / 1:20 and felt good off the top of Heartbreak Hill.

Interesting comparison with yourself. Was Boston your first 2:30? How did that play out compared to your build up? Agree with you on the longer stuff. Tempos and long runs will be the focus over the next 4 weeks.

Week of 8/5 to 8/11

Mo: AM - 10 @ 7:38; PM - 5 @ 7:24

Tu: AM - 10 @ 7:25; PM - 5 @ 7:11

We: AM - 3 x 3200 (11:12, 11:13, 11:23) w 400 (2’) jog, 12 total*; PM - 5 very easy

Th: AM - 10 @ 7:53: PM - 5 @ 7:51

Fr: AM - 10 @ 7:14; PM - 5 @ 7:48

Sa: 20 as 2.6 E, 6400m in 22:01, 6.8 E, 6400m in 22:10, 2.6 E.**

Su: 10 easy/jog

Total: 107 miles

*78 + 70 and sunny. Very consistent until the last 4 laps, then I faded pretty hard. Had considered a 4th rep, but 3 was good enough.

** Cool and very low humidity: 68 + 55 (!) just after sunrise on the first tempo to 71 + 54 and sunny on the second tempo. First tempo splits: 5:34, 5:35, 5:29, 5:23. Second tempo: 5:34, 5:33, 5:33, 5:29. Averaged 7:02 pace on the easy parts, 6:16 overall.

Double Bagel - Great pacing in those two more recent marathons. I can see why you might be reluctant to go out too fast after those earlier attempts, but see how your cycle goes, and maybe it’ll make sense to go out in 1:15. I’ve done three marathons. The others were Richmond 2007, when I was younger and faster, where I ran a high 2:26, and RnR DC last year, where I ran a 2:37. In between, competitive running just wasn’t my highest priority.

foleylee81 - I was on your GLR team back in (I think) 2010. Nice to see you’re running well.

My last week:

Mon 8/5 - off

Tues 8/6 - 10 easy (~7:00 pace)

Wed 8/7 - 9.5 easy w/ 8x120m strides

Thurs 8/8 - 8 easy (7:00 pace)

Fri 8/9 - 5 easy (7:05 pace)

Sat 8/10 - 10 mile road race in 59:21, 2 mile cd - 12 total.

Sun 8/11 - 16 easy (7:10 pace)

60.5 miles total for the week.

Definite improvement over the last week's training, and about what I was aiming for going into the week. 15 weeks left til race day now. Going to focus on just increasing my long run and total mileage the next few weeks then start incorporating marathon specific workouts.