Back in my days the coaches treated the athletes with respect and didn't shout other than encouragement. This has not changed in the UK.
Good runners are self motivated and if anything need to hold runners back.
Back in my days the coaches treated the athletes with respect and didn't shout other than encouragement. This has not changed in the UK.
Good runners are self motivated and if anything need to hold runners back.
I’m not a millennial, but American boomers seem like most entitled moany w@nks ever.
I’ve never met a group who pats themselves on the back and self congratulates as much as they do.
You are ranting on and on about a "problem" that does not exist.
Waste of time. The internet is a godsend to running. It's perfect for the net.
It's a small niche sport that doesn't garner enough attention for traditional newspapers and tv, but you can have a running site dedicated to nothing BUT running, both the how to part of it and cover the Pro side.
Look at the progress of American HS distance running since the net, it's exploded, the times these kids are running are amazing. I can't help but think it's due to shared performances, shared information, shared training...
Baby Boomers are in their 70's now.. they are not relevant in the sporting world at all.
WeNeedToFixThis wrote:
I'm a former D1 runner from a competitive program and have been waiting to write out my thoughts on this for a while. I bit my tongue for the longest time as people on LRC -- and amongst the running community as a whole -- went on and on about "young guys not being as tough as we used to be back in the day" and not being able to handle coaches that scream at and abuse their athletes. I noticed this when guys like Metcalfe, Pat Henner, Matt Centrowitz, etc. were forced into retirement and people that never ran for one of them (hint hint: I did) came to their defense on these boards and criticized the athletes that suffered from eating disorders, mental illness, etc. largely because of these coaching styles. This old guard of running thinks that embracing the treatment of your athletes like cattle is the best method of coaching, yet they ignore the increase in success that many of these programs have had with shifts to younger coaching staffs. I understand that many older runners were treated like garbage by their coaches and ran very well despite of it, but it's pretty undeniable that those time periods also coincided with the lowest points in American running ever so... take that as you will.
My other issue is with how the older generation treats athletes that embrace social media as a way to let people in to their lives and training. I don't think Tinman Elite is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I think Sage Canaday has had his fair share of disappointing races that warrant critique to his training, etc. But athletes like this have embraced a new age of online presence and the sport is MUCH better off for it. I understand that there are many runners that embrace the sport so heavily because they so sorely lacked skills outside of running. By keeping track as an exclusive cult, they can continue to feed into this notion that they're impressive specimens who do things that nobody else would even DARE to try (and in many cases, that is indeed true). But if you think people like Galen Rupp--who is a very nice guy but also the driest piece of toast to talk to -- are the best faces of this sport, then don't act shocked when NBC cuts to the shot-put every other lap of the 5k.
I worked in a running store for 8 years and have seen so many HS aged athletes that came in after seeing guys like Centro, Drew Hunter, etc. on social media and think running is actually a cool sport that they want to pursue. I've also seen countless older people that found the likes of Sage, Scott Jurek, etc. online and fell in love with marathoning and ultra-running because of it. These athletes are bringing people into this sport more rapidly, and the more we trash talk people that just want to put out their training/lifestyle on social media, the more our sport will continue to stagnate. I understand that many of you see their posts as just some cocky young guys trying to showboat about how tough their training is, but isn't that the same thing the older generation does when telling all of their "back in my day" stories to anyone that will listen? Grow up, embrace the change, and be happy that we have the opportunity to leave this sport on a higher pedestal than when we found it.
I agree wholeheartedly. That's a truth suppository if I ever saw one. Too bad most people on here are too puckered up to take it.
I have been at LRC two years, and I just totally agree with the OP.
If they think Sage should eat meat, then fine, you are allowed to say so, but please, be polite about it.
If you once ran a 14 minute 5 k, why are you bad to the 31 minute fat wanting to get to 25 minutes?
What is the name of this .com?
It is not, letallbeelitist.com
I must admit, I have been influenced by the bad guys, I am now a bad guy myself, and I hope I am bad only to those that deserve it, those that pick on the small, but I am not sure, just tell me stright if you see my handle and cannot handle it.
I don’t see this as an Old Guard problem as much as just poor coaching style. It’s not just running either, it’s still very much engrained in team sport coaches at every level. This is exactly what organizations like the Positive Coaching Alliance are trying to fight. Remember Bobby Knight? The guy had to get filmed choking a player to finally get fired, and another school still hired him after that! Someday maybe coaches will be held to the same kind of standard a corporate manager is held to and we might finally see a change. But as long as ADs and our institutions of hiring learning continue to allow the behavior to slide it will continue unless athletes stick up for themselves.
SprintTriathlon wrote:
I have been at LRC two years, and I just totally agree with the OP.
If they think Sage should eat meat, then fine, you are allowed to say so, but please, be polite about it.
If you once ran a 14 minute 5 k, why are you bad to the 31 minute fat wanting to get to 25 minutes?
What is the name of this .com?
It is not, letallbeelitist.com
I must admit, I have been influenced by the bad guys, I am now a bad guy myself, and I hope I am bad only to those that deserve it, those that pick on the small, but I am not sure, just tell me stright if you see my handle and cannot handle it.
You may agree with the OP about the general nature of much posting on this board, but that is rarely done by the boomers on here. By and large the baby boomer generation was raised and taught that good manners are important, and have conducted themselves with good manners. Further, OP has generalized his personal coaching experience to all or a majority of boomer era coaches and runners. As someone who has been in the sport for over 50 years, I think that coaches and/or runners with obnoxious and abusive personalities represent a small minority of the running community and represent a small minority across all generations.
The runners of yesteryear will always be better than the champions of today.
Give it enough time and you will agree.
From and old timer. Shut up and run.
I'm not criticsizing your post, but Greg Metcalf is not a part of the "old guard," of coaches. He's only 49 years old and is not retired.
Also Metcalf's style of coaching is not old school, its an example of a low self esteem and over compensating dbag who let authority go to their heads. It is incredibly common in all aspects of life.
Also you sound like a whiny victim...
Metcalf was taken down for treating athletes the same way that many of the older coaches do. Additionally, most of the reason why I included him in the original post was because of how many people in the threads about his leaving Washington were defending him and trashing his athletes.
Oh and I couldn’t care less if I sound like a whiny victim, you sound like an idiot who has no actual response to my argument. If being a “whiny victim” entails wanting whats best for this sport, then so be it. I’ll happily continue to whine and push for progress in the sport.
This problem overwhelmingly exists, it just sounds like you don’t live in a circle that actually discusses these things as I have. These problems exist both on LRC and in interpersonal conversations with other runners. Just look at how many people on this website are actively rooting for the Tinman guys to crash and burn (there was a thread about it just today). Look at how many people criticize Nick Symmonds for trying to run the 100 as a fun project. I could link to specific things if you really want me to hold your hand through this, but you can also search for yourself.
And my reference to boomers was more of a general attack on old people, I shouldn’t have used that phrase so loosely. But the sport is still heavily run by people over the age of 60 (cc: Sebastian Coe, formerly: Vin Lanana, etc.). So even if I was referring to only people of the boomer era, it still is an applicable comment.
WeNeedToFixThis wrote:
I'm a former D1 runner from a competitive program and have been waiting to write out my thoughts on this for a while. I bit my tongue for the longest time as people on LRC -- and amongst the running community as a whole -- went on and on about "young guys not being as tough as we used to be back in the day" and not being able to handle coaches that scream at and abuse their athletes. I noticed this when guys like Metcalfe, Pat Henner, Matt Centrowitz, etc. were forced into retirement and people that never ran for one of them (hint hint: I did) came to their defense on these boards and criticized the athletes that suffered from eating disorders, mental illness, etc. largely because of these coaching styles. This old guard of running thinks that embracing the treatment of your athletes like cattle is the best method of coaching, yet they ignore the increase in success that many of these programs have had with shifts to younger coaching staffs. I understand that many older runners were treated like garbage by their coaches and ran very well despite of it, but it's pretty undeniable that those time periods also coincided with the lowest points in American running ever so... take that as you will.
My other issue is with how the older generation treats athletes that embrace social media as a way to let people in to their lives and training. I don't think Tinman Elite is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I think Sage Canaday has had his fair share of disappointing races that warrant critique to his training, etc. But athletes like this have embraced a new age of online presence and the sport is MUCH better off for it. I understand that there are many runners that embrace the sport so heavily because they so sorely lacked skills outside of running. By keeping track as an exclusive cult, they can continue to feed into this notion that they're impressive specimens who do things that nobody else would even DARE to try (and in many cases, that is indeed true). But if you think people like Galen Rupp--who is a very nice guy but also the driest piece of toast to talk to -- are the best faces of this sport, then don't act shocked when NBC cuts to the shot-put every other lap of the 5k.
I worked in a running store for 8 years and have seen so many HS aged athletes that came in after seeing guys like Centro, Drew Hunter, etc. on social media and think running is actually a cool sport that they want to pursue. I've also seen countless older people that found the likes of Sage, Scott Jurek, etc. online and fell in love with marathoning and ultra-running because of it. These athletes are bringing people into this sport more rapidly, and the more we trash talk people that just want to put out their training/lifestyle on social media, the more our sport will continue to stagnate. I understand that many of you see their posts as just some cocky young guys trying to showboat about how tough their training is, but isn't that the same thing the older generation does when telling all of their "back in my day" stories to anyone that will listen? Grow up, embrace the change, and be happy that we have the opportunity to leave this sport on a higher pedestal than when we found it.
Yes, Tinman Elite is pushing the envelope every day by running in a town where every elite in the US trains, by video taping workouts *gasp* and selling overpriced grey hoodies on a website!!! We need more of these rebels!!!
This is a well written piece Sam, especially for a German.
WeNeedToFixThis wrote:
This problem overwhelmingly exists, it just sounds like you don’t live in a circle that actually discusses these things as I have. These problems exist both on LRC and in interpersonal conversations with other runners. Just look at how many people on this website are actively rooting for the Tinman guys to crash and burn (there was a thread about it just today). Look at how many people criticize Nick Symmonds for trying to run the 100 as a fun project. I could link to specific things if you really want me to hold your hand through this, but you can also search for yourself.
And my reference to boomers was more of a general attack on old people, I shouldn’t have used that phrase so loosely. But the sport is still heavily run by people over the age of 60 (cc: Sebastian Coe, formerly: Vin Lanana, etc.). So even if I was referring to only people of the boomer era, it still is an applicable comment.
Your attack on "people of the boomer era" is misplaced and an unrealistic projection of your limited personal experience on to the whole sport. I would suggest that your time might be better spent contributing to supporting opportunities to race and the organizational structure of the sport as many of us boomers do. What positive result do you expect to achieve from "a general attack on old people"? As we old people like to say, "better to light a candle than curse the darkness".
I’ve contributed plenty to the running community outside of this board that you will never know about because *gasp* you don’t know me. This is my first thread on LRC and I imagine you’ve contributed to many more before this, so would that mean that you also have contributed nothing to the running community? But continue on and not address actual points that I’ve made again!
Sorry I’m trying to critique a broken system in hopes that it changes at least a couple of people’s minds. It sounds like you don’t actually love this sport as much as you think you do.
Also, I’ve been a competitive runner for over a decade and have run for some of the best coaches on the East and West Coast — including some of the coaches I mentioned in my first post. How much more experience do I need to have a qualified opinion on the sport?
Man, you must’ve also hated Adam Goucher and all of the men in Running With the Buffaloes. Just some writing about their workouts that other people can do, including you, right? And then the nerve to go on and sell an overpriced book about it! I hate those guys for doing that.
WeNeedToFixThis wrote:
I very much agree with you on the "When you get out of that situation, you take the lessons learned..." part, but where I disagree is that you don't need to stay in that situation in the first place. You're not acting "special" or like a snowflake by saying, "Hey, this coach has led dozens of athletes to develop eating disorders, maybe we should tell the AD and push to get them removed."
And regardless of how you feel about social media and people being on their phones, it's the culture if this generation. You can either embrace it or be left behind. A bunch of runners choosing to seclude themselves and their training isn't going to solve the obsession with instagram. Why don't we accept that as the next stage of cultural evolution and join in?
"...obsession with instagram. "
May I ask you a question? You think that's healthy? An obsession over a social media platform? Does your generation needs recognition and attention so bad that it has to obsess over something so mundane? Are you serious when you as us to just accept the next stage of cultural evolution when what is doing creating an entire generation of self-entitled spoiled brats?
[quote]WeNeedToFixThis wrote:
I'm a former D1 runner from a competitive program and have been waiting to write out my thoughts on this for a while. I bit my tongue for the longest time as people on LRC -- and amongst the running community as a whole -- went on and on about "young guys not being as tough as we used to be back in the day" and not being able to handle coaches that scream at and abuse their athletes. I noticed this when guys like Metcalfe, Pat Henner, Matt Centrowitz, etc. were forced into retirement and people that never ran for one of them (hint hint: I did) came to their defense on these boards and cr
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Enough already! By the time you get out of college you should be able to coach yourself. You would still have the need for a team, teammates, and a coach/adviser but it's time to stop blaming other people for your shortcomings.
I’m pretty sure my second comment was that I’m not blaming my college coach for my shortcomings in running. Did he contribute to them? Absolutely. Do I think others should be subjected to that same treatment? Absolutely not. Is there an issue with me pushing for that to be eradicated? Or are you going to continue making up arguments that I never said.
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