2:19 on 70-80 miles per week.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

justno wrote:

Look, a lot of us love this thread, but these are the things that get people going crazy with your posts.

If that runner ran those races the week or two before you stared coaching him, then yes, you could say your training brought all those results in 2 and a half months. It is clearly not the case with the marathon. You coached him to a dramatic improvement. Just drop the 2.5 months part.

Also, it leads to a bigger question. What happened after those 2.5 months? Did you keep coaching him? How are his times now?

You can go on STRAVA and check yourself what he did up to my coaching and then what he did during the 2½ months I coached him, and of course what he did last 4 years without me as coach.

The Strava data was interesting. Looks like right before you started coaching him (early July and June of 2015?) he was doing mostly mountain and sky races with the occasional 3000m race in the low to mid 9 minute range. Also interesting to see you bumped his mileage up quite a bit. 7 weeks between 88 and 100+. Pretty different from this current plan.

So I'm sticking with my original comment. You didn't lower all his PRs in 2.5 months. Especially not the marathon. But that 3000m PR definitely came down in 2.5 months. That is quite impressive that you helped improve his times across such a range of distance. Kudos to you for that . And you are definitely responsible for lowering his marathon PR. No question. Just not in 2.5 months.

I have really enjoyed working with coach J.S. He is extremely flexible with my schedule, has been incredibly supportive, and he gets me pumped up to be better than I ever have. He’s doing all of this completely for free as well.His training is very different from anything I have done in the past, but I believe in the plan.

Since ultimately this is all about defeating the ghosts of my youth I thought it would be interesting to post my training weeks leading up to my marathon debut and Pr in 2010. At the time I was living in Bar Harbor ME and did all my training in Acadia National Park. I didn’t track me easy run pace then, but it was mostly 7:00-6:30 pace I’d guess.

15 weeks out

M: am 9 miles easy

pm 6 miles easy

T: am 5 miles easy

pm 12.3 miles easy

W: am 9 miles easy

pm 9 miles easy

Th: am 5 easy

pm 12 easy 6x15sec last 2 miles

F: am 5 easy

pm 12 easy

S: am 5 easy

pm 12 miles, last 2 miles 5:11, 5:15

S: 18.1 miles 1:49:23 6:02 pace

Total: 119.4

14 weeks out

M: 5 miles easy

T: am 11 miles easy

pm 6 miles easy

W: am 11.5 miles 8x1 min on 2 min off

pm 6.5 miles easy

Th: am 5 miles easy

pm 11.5 miles easy

F: am 5 miles easy

pm 12 miles easy

S: 5 miles easy

S: 8 miles, Bridgeton 4 on the 4th: 19:58 (4:44, 5:16, 5:01, 4:57) 1st place

pm 9 miles easy

Total: 95.5 miles

Spaghetti & Meatballs wrote:

Now you are back to claiming his 2:40 PR was set 2 1/2 months before his 2:27:30?

He said at the beginning that the times were a year apart at the same marathon.

You are dishonest and not someone that can be taken seriously.

How ironic.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

You must see what happened in just

the 2½ months I coached him . His PB:s were lowered from 4:19 to 4:09 at 1500m (without special 1500m training), 8:59 to 8:48 at 3000m , 1:14 to 1:11 at half marathon and 2:40 to 2:27:30 at marathon. If you think that is worth a "gotcha" I can let you do it. )) Cheers!

This sure looks like he's saying he improved his times in 2 1/2 months.

This is the first time he said this. Where does he explain that the PR took place a year earlier?

Well........The very first runner I coached from 2:40 down to 2:27:30 in just 2 ½ months I also coached to 32:30 at 10 k road.

So it looks like you probably can run about 32:15 at 10 k track.

Spaghetti & Meatballs wrote:

This sure looks like he's saying he improved his times in 2 1/2 months.

Yes, he coached him for 2 1/2 months.

Spaghetti & Meatballs wrote:

This is the first time he said this. Where does he explain that the PR took place a year earlier?

Read the freaking thread, and don't be so stupid.

I may be an old bald 31:40 10k guy with a saggy ass, but I am pretty good at 20x400 workouts.

(Seconds rest)

69.7, 42.2

68.5, 43.4

68.4, 47.3

68.7, 52.3

68.8, 49.7

69.2, 50.1

69.3, 54.2

68.7, 53.4

69.3, 57.5

68.8, 57.9

69.1, 53.4

68.5, 67.4

69.5, 59.3

68.7, 58.3

68.5, 57.9

69.4, 57.8

69.6, 57.8

69.3, 57.9

69.5, 59.2

60.4, 87.1

13 total miles. Good day

He ,he ! )) Nice workout.......and check now the resting times down back to 120 bpm. Most of them except one under 60 sec rest and under 90 sec rest after the last in 60.4 ! Everything so far goes up to plan!

When I coached Victor KIpchirchir , Kenya , to his win in Valencia marathon at 2:07:38 ( Still his PB ) in year 2016 he used to do 20 x 400m at 62-64 sec and rest down back to 120 bpm in less than a minute. :)

Nice session. You’re getting better at these. Are they always done on the track and how are you getting up to 13 miles? Do you have a long cool down jog or do you double later on?

Also, have you thought about doing a 5k race to see where you’re at? It wouldn’t take much out of your training and would make the 10 miler pace feel nice and slow.

I did a 4 mile warm up, 5 miles during the workout, 4 mile cool down. I have done all the 400 workouts on the track. I do have a 400m loop in my neighborhood as well as a 1 mile section of bike trail with every 200m marked, but I do enjoy running on the track. Once we get snow I’ll prob have to switch to the roads and hope they plow well.

I actually have a low key 5k this Sunday. Most years 17:30-18:00 wins it. My best time on the course is 15:48 last thanksgiving. They use the same course basically for the local turkey trot. Mile 1 and 3 are fast, but mile 2 is pretty tough. You never know who’s going to show up, but it will probably be a solo effort. Hopefully I can get things rolling a little better than Monday!

Below Average wrote:

I may be an old bald 31:40 10k guy with a saggy ass, but I am pretty good at 20x400 workouts.

What kind of watch do you use that records the recoveries?

Or, are you just taking splits all the way?

I use my old non gps timex. Just take splits and keep the watch running continuously. So 40 splits and I’m done. I’d probably lose count without it. I like it more than my garmin because i can see the exact split each time.

Below Average wrote:

I use my old non gps timex. Just take splits and keep the watch running continuously. So 40 splits and I’m done. I’d probably lose count without it. I like it more than my garmin because i can see the exact split each time.

Thanks.

Below Average wrote:

I did a 4 mile warm up, 5 miles during the workout, 4 mile cool down. I have done all the 400 workouts on the track. I do have a 400m loop in my neighborhood as well as a 1 mile section of bike trail with every 200m marked, but I do enjoy running on the track. Once we get snow I’ll prob have to switch to the roads and hope they plow well.

I actually have a low key 5k this Sunday. Most years 17:30-18:00 wins it. My best time on the course is 15:48 last thanksgiving. They use the same course basically for the local turkey trot. Mile 1 and 3 are fast, but mile 2 is pretty tough. You never know who’s going to show up, but it will probably be a solo effort. Hopefully I can get things rolling a little better than Monday!

Cool man. Good luck in the 5k. Go for personal course record!

Do you think it’s a good idea to do LT pace on the same surface one is training to race on so track, tarmac or grass/xc?

How are you finding the lack of fast or all out speed work/hills and tempo runs that seem staples of most systems but aren’t in Coach JS’s.

I’ve always found hard 4 milers for 5k and hard 7 milers for 10k great mental conditioning workouts that train focus and get me race ready.

Maybe they’re not needed with the quicker daily runs and regular racing serving to keep the mental focus.

Interesting system. I hope you do well in the ten miler and later at CIM.

You carry the great mileage debate on the shoulders of your training and results. To which ideological camp will you deal a great blow? Haha :P

Alberto salazaaar wrote:

How are you finding the lack of fast or all out speed work/hills and tempo runs that seem staples of most systems but aren’t in Coach JS’s. I’ve always found hard 4 milers for 5k and hard 7 milers for 10k great mental conditioning workouts that train focus and get me race ready.

Kipchoge doesn't do that type of training either.

People think they know all about elite runners training

and still thinking that all runners from 70's ran at 5:00-5:10 per mile 150 miles; Tadese ran 200 km at 2:50 per km;

Coe ran 40 miles at 5 min per mile and no slower; Lydiard system is to jog 100 miles every week;

we should train like Lagat, because he runs 50 miles at 5:40 and his PB's are 3:26 and 12:59

and we don't need "jung mileage" !

Rupp and Farah ran no slower than 5:30 per mile every easy and recovery running.

Tempo pace should be 15 sec slower than 5 k PB (salazar).

Just follow that information and be as smart as you are !

PS: Why young runners and their smart coaches try to compare elite runners to novice runners and have them to run

exactly same workouts, with the same recovery ?

That's not the same to run 15 x 400 m at 64 with 45 sec of rest and 15 x 400 at 90 with 45 rest,

absolutely not the same VO2max workout for elite runner 5 x 1 k at 2:40 with 2 min of rest and young runner doing

5 x 1 k at 3:45 with the same rest. More funnier is workout 4 x mile at 3-5 k pace with 90 s of rest, really ? Why not 20 sec?

Have you ever thought how fast 6:00 min per mile easy running pace "in percentage" for a runner with 13:20 5 k and 2:10

PB at marathon and 6:30 for a runner with 16:00 and 2:50 ?

Actually ... wrote:

Alberto salazaaar wrote:

How are you finding the lack of fast or all out speed work/hills and tempo runs that seem staples of most systems but aren’t in Coach JS’s. I’ve always found hard 4 milers for 5k and hard 7 milers for 10k great mental conditioning workouts that train focus and get me race ready.

Kipchoge doesn't do that type of training either.

That´s correct. My and Patrick Sang`s systems are in fact very similar , except his runners doing more mileage. Also some other differences are the specific long run and how we handle

the recovery between intervals . Back in 2016 in September Kamworor asked me to coach him to break the world record at

15 km road at Seven Hills race in Netherlands. I asked him if he thought it wouldn`t be any problem to run 20 x 400m at 60-61 sec and he told that should not be difficult for him. That pace at 20 x 400m is necessary to break world records.

I sent him first weeks schedule but unfortunately he got sick in pneumonia and I didn`t get the opportunity to coach the great Kenyan runner.

Rambling with no point.