College coaches, how often do you interact with "snowplow sports parents"?

We attended our first swim meet as parents this weekend. I'm not sure how much patience I'll have if there are parents that just won't chill the eff out.

rojo wrote:

I just read an interesting article form Sports Illustrated.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/the-rise-of-the-snowplow-sports-parents/ar-AAD7qKE?ocid=spartandhp

I've been out of coaching for 7 years now and my former colleagues tell me A LOT has changed as we there is a now a generation of kids raised with cell phones and social media.

As it also changed with the parents? When I was coaching, I used to tell the other coaches at Cornell I was thankful I was a track coach as I didn't have any problems whatsoever with parents. I mean what is a track parent going to complain about? The times speak for themselves so they can't complain about playing time.

But have things changed? Do you have parents moving the your location to be near Johnny or Susie?

I think the biggest issue is that kids are helpless. Cell phones, TV/youtube, and social media have created truly dumb children. Add in participation trophies, lack of parenting (parents who never discipline their children or build character), and schools that essentially give everyone passing grades for crappy work. The end result is high school and college aged kids who have the mental capacity of 6 year olds from previous generations.

In many situations where there are snowplow parents (not all situations) it's because the dumb kids would literally fail at everything if mommy and daddy didn't step in to save the day. Other times, the parents just want to profit off of their children's talent (Lavar Ball).

As a college coach, about 1 in 10 recruits that I talk to can actually carry on a conversation. The rest can only effectively communicate through text or email - they can't form full sentences in regular conversations.

Personally I'm more worried about the kids helplessness than I am about their parents. If the parents had faith in their children, they wouldn't have to snowplow.

Thinking back to my time in college and just prior ... I talked to coaches, made my choice, enrolled myself, went to school. The only "snow plowing" was my mom saying to bring my laundry when I came home and my dad paid kicked in for a good chunk of my first 2 years.

My buddy's son is a freshman at college - he and his wife went to move him into the dorms and went to visit practically every weekend the first semester - he is only 90 min away. Dad helped him get a summer job, etc. etc. I just dont get it.

what comes first wrote:

As a college coach, about 1 in 10 recruits that I talk to can actually carry on a conversation. The rest can only effectively communicate through text or email - they can't form full sentences in regular conversations.

Personally I'm more worried about the kids helplessness than I am about their parents. If the parents had faith in their children, they wouldn't have to snowplow.

Are you sure they can’t communicate with you? They can communicate pretty well with one another, so it’s probably you who can’t communicate with them.

This generation of kids was raised by parents that had no f*cking clue what they were doing. And yet we blame the kids for the parents mistake.

Yes, there are parents who unhealthily meddle (i.e. helicopter or snowplow) in their kids' athletic career (life). Are we seeing more of it now than before? Perhaps so. Still, the GREAT MAJORITY of young men and young women with whom I interact in the sports of Track & Field/XC are doing just fine. Maybe this is not the case in some other sports based on the examples provided in the SI article.

I think we need to be careful about over generalizing. Are there SAs that have difficult communicating face to face? You bet. But I also believe that we see what we want to see. If we generalize that all or nearly all recruits can only communicate via text and their parents are snowplowing, then sure, we will likely see that. We choose what we want to see.

Based on some horrible actions of some (very few?) collegiate coaches, including some in TF/XC, some parents are cautious in trusting coaches and feel the need to become more involved. After reading some scandalous article parents will sometimes generalize about coaches; what they might do to their kid, and understandably become more protective.

Ultimately it comes down to building relationships of trust - on both sides. If a SA feels the need to involve their parents in their decision-making process then we can either (a) choose to embrace the opportunity to build a relationship of trust with the SA and their parents (with the hope there will be less snowplowing since we've earned their trust); or (b) see the SA and parents in a negative light - another obstacle to overcome in building a good team.

Angry Willy wrote:

Thinking back to my time in college and just prior ... I talked to coaches, made my choice, enrolled myself, went to school. The only "snow plowing" was my mom saying to bring my laundry when I came home and my dad paid kicked in for a good chunk of my first 2 years.

My buddy's son is a freshman at college - he and his wife went to move him into the dorms and went to visit practically every weekend the first semester - he is only 90 min away. Dad helped him get a summer job, etc. etc. I just dont get it.

I see nothing wrong with parents helping a kid move in. But after that the college student should work to figure things out. The resident assistant is there to assist the residents.

Parents also have to accept that federal law pretty much precludes any college employee from saying much about their son/daughter. I got calls from parents (I was a college administrator) in the later 80s asking about their son or daughter and told them I could not say much more than that they were enrolled. I had one parent call me to ask about her son and he had moved out of the dorm I managed to another dorm. Never told her and did not even give her his new phone number; she was upset that no one answered the phone (his roomie had moved out as well so the phone just rang---there was no phone even in the room). I think I gave her some vague hint that he had moved to another dorm by telling her to call campus information.

The few friends I have remaining in that world say it has gotten far worse since my days.

Some of this is the fault of the parents for being overprotective to the point that the kids cannot understand how to do anything for themselves. If a parent is not going to let a kid walk a 1/2 mile to the store to get some candy at age 12 (I was riding my bike a mile to the store around age 10) then how do you expect a kid to be able to navigate registering for classes and lord forbid roommate conflicts.

You may not see a lot of the interactions and just because the parents are not pestering you does not mean that the SAs are not reaching out to them several times a day.

(Get off my lawn moment): I talked to my parents on Sunday nights only. I would call during the week only if I were going to come home that weekend--something I did do very often because being at college was fun. I have read and heard that colleges on the weekends are ghost towns with Thursday night being the most active night. I know of kids who go to CU or CSU and come home virtually every weekend. It is not that they are coming home to work to earn money; they are just coming home. My ex and I joke that when the second kid is off we are moving from where we currently live and not telling them where we are for a year. We will meet them somewhere for the holidays.

Typical clueless college admin. Learn about the ferpa.

I have a few- but they're afraid to talk to me. I keep expecting them to email the AD when they perform poorly ;)

I don't think it's as much about the snowplow as it is money- they are so heavily invested financially in college- they want an outcome. Give the price- they feel literally entitled.

So you're saying that the boomers not only destroyed economic opportunity and the environment for Millenials and GenZ, but also failed to rear them to face said hardships? I agree with you 100%. These kids didn't stand a chance, given the utter failure of boomers to be responsible parents.

Robbie:

https://giphy.com/gifs/the-breakfast-club-gdofTm3QX7IaI

You want parents who leavebyou alone? Recruit poor kids.

Or how about this... these kids parents are paying big bucks for their kid to go to school. Why not have your grad assistant send out a weekly or bimonthly email to “supporters” of the program? Keep them in the loop as to where you are racing and drum up parent support.

Most are horrible recruiters who just look down the athletic.net list. Most don’t have social or communication skills themselves. Most get out coached by high school coaches. They have their job because they are a-holes and a long time ago knew how to kiss butt and be political.

There’s 10% of the good guys out there. If that’s you thank you!

Lurn about ferpa wrote:

Typical clueless college admin. Learn about the ferpa.

To save everybody the trouble with these highlights:

-Once a student reaches 18 years of age or attends a postsecondary institution, he or she becomes an "eligible student," and all rights formerly given to parents under FERPA transfer to the student.

-the right to have control over the disclosure of personally identifiable information from the records (except in certain circumstances specified in the FERPA regulations, some of which are discussed below), and the right to file a complaint with the Department.

Exceptions:

-One of the exceptions to the prior written consent requirement in FERPA allows "school officials," including teachers, within a school to obtain access to personally identifiable information contained in education records provided the school has determined that they have "legitimate educational interest" in the information.

- to another school in which the student seeks or intends to enroll.

-in connection with financial aid for which the student has applied or which the student has received

-disclose personally identifiable information from education records without consent when the disclosure is to the parents of a "dependent student" as that term is defined in Section 152 of the Internal Revenue Code. Generally, if either parent has claimed the student as a dependent on the parent's most recent year's income tax statement, the school may non-consensually disclose the eligible student's education records to both parents under this exception.

-Postsecondary institutions may also disclose personally identifiable information from education records, without consent, to appropriate parties, including parents of an eligible student, in connection with a health or safety emergency.

-when the disclosure is to the parents of a student at a postsecondary institution regarding the student's violation of any Federal, State, or local law, or of any rule or policy of the institution, governing the use or possession of alcohol or a controlled substance.

-when such information has been appropriately designated as directory information

-There are several other exceptions to FERPA's prohibition

Full text:

The other side of this situation is the high level of manipulation and emotional misconduct directed towards a minor child by adults in a position of authority. My personal experience is many college coaches do not have the child's best interest as a priority and seek to minimize parental involvement in an effort to better control the teenager's decisions. Not an honorable, ethical or moral code of behavior for many coaches.

parent perspective wrote:

The other side of this situation is the high level of manipulation and emotional misconduct directed towards a minor child by adults in a position of authority. My personal experience is many college coaches do not have the child's best interest as a priority and seek to minimize parental involvement in an effort to better control the teenager's decisions. Not an honorable, ethical or moral code of behavior for many coaches.

Simply not true at all. First off, being a T&F or XC coach does not pay well enough for "many college coaches" to be all business. You're in it because you love the sport, you love working with athletes, and you love getting athletes to their maximum potential. The reason college coaches want to talk with kids and not parents is because that is who they will be working with. That is who they will be building working relationships with. They aren't coaching mom and dad. They want to know what the athlete's goals are, and what the athlete is looking for; not what the parent wants. More so, becoming a good distance runner requires personal accountability, discipline, and the ability to grind through difficult situations. If a kid needs their parent to do every little thing for them, its a pretty good indicator that they will struggle in the sport at the next level so that's not someone they want to recruit all that hard.

Way to be involved in your kids' lives. You sound like a great parent.

Parents should be involved with their kids' lives, but the parent's relationship is with the kid, not with the team. I have a relationship with my son. My son has a relationship with his team. I do not have a relationship with his team. It's not a threesome, it's two distinct relationships.

If he wants to tell me about something that is going on with his running and ask for my advice, I'm more than happy to give it. But I just can't imagine ever getting directly involved with his coach beyond saying hi when I bump into him. I'm a third party to that relationship.

third party wrote:

Parents should be involved with their kids' lives, but the parent's relationship is with the kid, not with the team. I have a relationship with my son. My son has a relationship with his team. I do not have a relationship with his team. It's not a threesome, it's two distinct relationships.

If he wants to tell me about something that is going on with his running and ask for my advice, I'm more than happy to give it. But I just can't imagine ever getting directly involved with his coach beyond saying hi when I bump into him. I'm a third party to that relationship.

The way it should be. Back in the day, on a men’s nationally ranked collegiate T&F team, parents were invisible except as spectators at the meets. One guy’s dad was retired and would occasionally come watch us do intervals, but other than that, our coaches wouldn’t know the parents if they walked past them on the street.

My son was a football/track athlete and the only conversation I had with the track coach occurred when the team traveled to a meet which was nearby (school was 1500mi away from our home) and my wife and I went to watch the team compete. The conversation I had with the coach was about the sport and I don't think we even mentioned any of the athletes on his team.

I did have a couple of conversations with his position coach in football when I attended a couple of his spring games which were along the lines of how is he doing in a general sense. There were some parents who lived near our home who traveled to every game home and away and were absolutely brutal to sit near during the few games I attended. The biggest shock to me was finding out that what I thought would go away from the parents in moving from HS to college actually got worse in terms of how they treated the coaches and acted during games.