BYU is good, Their** men are.. well... more men, than the rest

anyone who has ever been on a mission is laughing at this assumption. It just doesn't happen.

Sasha Pachev wrote:

To clarify some misinformation mentioned earlier:

- Missionaries are currently given 45 minutes for exercise 6 days a week.

Almost five hours a week. 6 minute pace gives 50 miles a week. What is all the whining and bitching? Crybabies. There is no reason why they can't stay in shape with five hours a week.

you don't just have "free time" on the mission. missionaries are very much locked into a schedule and you are tied to another person the whole two years (seriously you never get alone time except when in the bathroom/shower), and you only got like 30 min a day, and maybe (a big MAYBE) more on one other day a week called a preparation day.

as has been said, it is a personal decision

zxcvzxcv wrote:

How do we know that they aren't running? And it's nonsense to say that they have no time to run. They cannot go door to door early in the morning, nor after dark. So, they can run from 4-8 probably in the morning and 7-10 in the evening.

most have 9:30 curfews and 10:30 lights out. So much of mission life is up to the mission president's discretion as well. and you have to be in white shirt and tie until bed/ and matching attire if I am correct.

Maybe next time you see a missionary ask them what their schedule is before you yell obscenities at them!

zohan wrote:

But this isn't a carve out for BYU only, it could apply to any church or military service or peace corps.

It's a matter of priorities. If more US students delayed their entry into college after 2 years in Peace Corp or military it would probably be good for them.

I believe Bekele was 23 when he broke the 10,000 m record.

And 21 when he broke the 5,000m record

zxcvzxcv wrote:

How do we know that they aren't running? And it's nonsense to say that they have no time to run. They cannot go door to door early in the morning, nor after dark. So, they can run from 4-8 probably in the morning and 7-10 in the evening.

Our schedule on my mission in Taiwan (1981-1982):

Tues - Sunday

6:30 Wake up, shower, shave, get dressed

7:00 personnel scripture study

7:30 Companion scripture study

8:00 Language Study (Mandarin Chinese)

9:00 Out the door to get breakfast (was cheap and fast to eat on the town)

9:30 Working by tracting (knocking on doors) or going to teaching appointments, a little visiting of members (little), attending meetings. 1-hr lunch break, 1-hr dinner break (usually shorter)

9:00 Head for the apartment, write in journal, little bit of down time to talk with other missionaries you lived with, maybe hit a roadside market on the way home

10:30 in bed

Mondays:

6:30 wake up, write letters home, shop for food, wash clothes, pick up supplies, go sight-seeing, go on a hike, maybe play some basketball, maybe go to a park early in the morning and watch some guys do gung-fu

5:30 (I believe) back to work and same as other days

We didn't get any dedicated exercise time then. We did ride bikes to/from work area about 5-miles/day and we walked up and down a lot of apartment building stairs. That was our schedule. I personally got up at 5:30 most of my mission and would do pushups, jumping drills, upside down pushups, situps for an hour in the morning. My companion was still asleep so there was no going outside by myself to go on a run. Missionaries work very hard.

Another data point.

I was a decent distance runner (frosh/soph county champ in central California). For 2 months (early '90s), my companion was a legitimate county champ from southern California, probably a 9:20s guy. So maybe not the most competitive counties, but you get the picture. We both liked running, we both had brought running shoes with us, we had easy access to roads and even a track to run on, and neither of us were sticklers for following rules.

How many times did we run together in those 2 months? Maybe twice. We were too busy other days, or the other guys in town wanted to play basketball or go on a hike. Plus all we had to go on was high school training and we had no real idea how to train without a coach to tell us.

And that was the best case. Usually you're with someone who doesn't like exercise at all, or hates running.

Missions are great things, but they are terrible environments for training long-distance runners.

When I saw this thread, I thought for awhile whether I wanted to respond. Then I thought for awhile about what I might say. I grew up in Utah, and I served a church mission myself, nearly 38 years ago. Reading all the posts, I saw that several things I wanted to say were already said:

1. Young LDS (Mormon) men who go on a church mission DO come back two years older, which IS definitely a physical advantage over their non-mission competitors IF ONLY they could continue a serious running schedule for those two years.

2. Anyone who knows anything about Mormon missionaries knows that they have very little time or energy (if they had time) to run, so they ALWAYS come back in non-runner condition.

3. Each Mormon missionary is tied to his/her mission companion 24 hours a day. There is no getting up an hour early and going off running while your companion is still sleeping.

Enough has been said about these things. However, since I wrote a few things about this topic in my book, Running: A Long Distance Love Affair (on Amazon--some of you got it for free), I just wanted to share this excerpt about how even a moderately successful male Mormon high school distance runner feels as he prepares to sacrifice two years of his life (and his running goals) for his religious beliefs:

Confusion

Four-TEN! My watch reads 4:10! Sixty-two-point-five seconds per lap. Four seconds better than the 4:14 I ran two weeks ago, which was three seconds better than the 4:17 I ran two weeks before that. A 4:10 mile in a time trial, by myself. Who else will believe this? Less than a year ago, a 4:10 mile would have easily won the Utah State High School Championship. I wish my high school teammates were here to see me now! A 4:10 mile with no competition. A 4:10, and I think I could have kicked even harder and shaved off another second. A 4:10 at 4,400 feet elevation—could I run at least two seconds faster at sea level? A 4:10 on a training schedule I created myself with a couple of scaled-down ideas from Running: The Lydiard Way. How fast could I run if I could just stay on this schedule another month or two?

But that’s not going to happen. Tomorrow morning, I’ll leave home on a two-year church mission. I've known my destination, a Spanish-speaking mission in Fresno, California, for over three months now, the same amount of time I've been on this new training schedule. I finally have a schedule that works for me! I call it my “Mile Run Micro-Peak,” and so far it seems perfect. After a promising start and a disastrous finish in cross country at the “U,” I finally forced myself to run smart. When I was sore, I ran easy; when I was very sore, I took a day off. Now I've been injury-free for more than six months. Everything is finally coming together!

While I'm thrilled with today's time trial, I'm also confused. I feel myself vacillating. Am I really going to sacrifice two years of my life for something I'm not sure I believe? Am I crazy? Maybe. But everyone expects me to go on a church mission. Every day I feel the pressure of their expectations.

But I don't really want to go on a church mission, and I feel so guilty because I'm not looking forward to it. There's a big part of me that really wants to stay. And what if I stayed? What if I told everyone I changed my mind?

No, I have to go. My parents expect it of me. My friends expect it of me. I expect it of myself. It's what every good Mormon boy does at the age of 19. Maybe by going on a mission I can be like the true believers at church who are always testifying that they know it's all true “beyond the shadow of a doubt.” If I could get my own answers to the big questions we all have about God, human existence and the meaning of life, surely that would be more important than running . . . But what if I stayed? What if I called up Coach Jones right now and asked for my scholarship back? He'd agree if he knew what kind of shape I'm in right now. I could run a time trial for him. While a 4:10 mile isn't world class, surely it’s better than any Utah high school runner Coach Jones will be able to recruit this year, and I'm still a freshman. The outdoor track season will begin soon, and I'm ready.

No, I have to go on a mission. If I don't go, maybe God will punish me with another injury to teach me a lesson for my selfishness.

But is that true? I don't really know who God is. Maybe God isn't a “vengeful God.” And who really knows what God wants? Maybe God would understand. Maybe God doesn't really care about churches and meetings and tithing and sacrifice. Maybe God just wants me to be happy. There’s a scripture that I've heard so many times in church: “Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.” Running gives me more joy than anything else, so maybe God wouldn't mind if I stayed . . .

Maybe, but what about everyone else—what would they think? What would they say? How could I face them? How could I disappoint my parents? I owe it to them. Since I was a little boy, they've always said I have to go on a church mission. There’s even a missionary song for young boys: “I Hope They Call Me On A Mission.” And what if it's all true as they believe? If it's all true, how could I selfishly do what I want to do? What about my conscience?

But whose life is this, anyway? Mine—it's my life. Whose happiness should matter most to me? Mine. I have to live for myself then. I have to do what makes me happy. I have to stay.

No, I have to go. I owe it to my parents. I owe it to all those people I shake hands with in church every Sunday. Above all, I owe it to God. And it's only two years. What's two years? I'll be 21 when I come back—older, more mature and confident, like all those older African runners. Steeplechaser Henry Marsh went on a two-year church mission, and he's really good. And I'm sure Ed Eyestone won't let it hold him back, either. So why can't I do it, too? I'll come back after two years, red-shirt on a team, and take it from there. I finally figured out my training schedule. I know what works for me. I know how to get faster without injury. I'll come back and do it again. . . .

But what if the fire dies? There's no time for running on a church mission. Missionaries are forbidden to go anywhere without a companion. Fat chance I have of getting missionary companions who will get out of bed even earlier every morning just to go running with me. What if I take two years off, get totally out of shape, and lose the fire? What if I can't make myself do it again? What if I come back and . . . no longer want to?

No, I shouldn't think like that. Running has been my life for three years now, and it will still be my life when I return. I can keep the fire burning. I can. What's two years? I'll sacrifice two years now for everyone else, and then I'll be free. Okay . . . I'll go . . .

Great passage. Did your end up regretting the mission and resenting your parents, or Mormonism? Did you become a true believer? Or something in between?

All this is FAKE NEWS

Some go due to peer pressure and most of these are converted while on their mission. Most initially go because they truly believe.

My thoughts before my mission where no where near like described. I knew it was true. I wanted to go more than anything even though I had a serious girl-friend and also knew I would miss running. I also knew I would be blessed and if God's will it would all work out. Leaving the girl-friend was way harder than leaving the running!

I know everyone loves to crap all over BYU, but here's some food for thought: Let's imagine that a rule did exist where no NCAA athlete can compete after a 5 year period post HS graduation.

How would this have changed the 10k results? BYU would have gone 1-2!

Young and Kigen fall outside of that window and would not have competed, but both McMillan and Mantz are within 5 years of graduating high school.

I'm sure you all will still find plenty of ways to express your BYU hate, but the fact of the matter is that BYU is a great team and the athletes are great with and without the 2 year missions.

(Of note, Young and Farnsworth (1st & 21st) are the only BYU athletes in the 10k that fall outside the 5 year HS window. All the others (3rd, 4th, 15th, 23rd) are within 5 years of HS graduation.)

all day bike riding and walking for 2 years is better exercise than running 45 mins a day.

Maybe it's not the age, but the life experience they get? Sure being more physically mature helps, but think about the emotional and intellectual maturity that comes with the mission. So these guys get back and they are responsible adults. They have an immense amount of perspective. They don't go out and raise hell at the bars and stay up until 3 am and then try to get a 6 am run in. Did you guys see the camera shot after the 10k of the BYU section? Did you notice how many young kids were in that section? I am guessing a few of those belong to the guys running? Making a big assumption here of course. Having a wife and kid, that is stress man. I don't care how old you are, it's stress, but it also makes you realize what is important. I think the guy who won the vault also has a wife and a kid. And before anyone jumps in, yes I've heard stories that BYU has it wild moments

I don't think they have such a physical advantage as, they just have their "stuff" together. They have perspective and they have priorities. And they are in an environment that surrounds them with people who share the same values. Most 18-22 year olds don't have that. I think if they went on missions as 16 year olds and then entered college at 18 like most, you'd probably see the same result. It's a matter of what is important to you IMO.

There are a lot of things wrong with this post. But I've never had ANYONE tell me why, if this is such a huge advantage for BYU students, there aren't other schools lining up to send their kids on "missions" or "assignments" or whatever they want to call them and take advantage of this massive loophole. There are always people, every year and regarding every sport it seems, who bring this stupid argument up and claim BYU is cheating everyone else. If it truly is such an advantage, why aren't others taking advantage? The short answer is because it's not an advantage. It's a massive disadvantage.

People bring it up all the time because they're sore losers and this is an easy shot to take. Missionaries don't "train" in fact they barely exercise at all, unless you count walking a lot. It's just such a lazy, terrible argument to even make.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

1. People aren't lining up to do it because the rule states an athlete has to be part of an organized church sponsored mission.

2. This rule ONLY benefits BYU as the church has a highly organized mission structure and zero other religions have such programs. You can go on a mission of you're muslim, but it's not a way of life for other religions as it is for BYU.

3. It is an advantage to have older people. you are more physically mature than you were two years prior. Olympic athletes aren't 18-22 they are much older... because they are physically stronger.

4. International athletes have been brought up as an argument that the OP is just a BYU hater.. . That's the dumbest argument you can make. Maybe she is

HOWEVER, international recruiting can be done by any school... YET THIS LOOP HOLE IS ONLY EXPLOITED BY BYU (at least by overwhelming majority). It's not the same thing. Anyone can recruit internationals but only ONE SCHOOL has a systematic approach to having grown men compete year in and year out.

So, if BYU wants to recruit Internationally, good for them, but the NCAA should just make D1 sports more fair for non religious people and stop playing into the hands of a few.

All the BYU supporters are screaming and yelling saying missions dont help, but the OP has FACTS. FACTS PEOPLE FACTS.

Stating that BYU is exploiting a loophole is a bit dramatic and overstated. The thing I wish people understood about these church missions is that the athletes don't do them BECAUSE they want to be national class athletes. They do it DESPITE that fact.

Just look at BYU's current team. I'm pretty sure the reason McMillan and Linkletter didn't serve missions is because they wanted to focus fully on their athletic careers. No one is giving up their training for 2 years with the mindset that they do it so they can take advantage of a loophole and become a better athlete years down the road. They do it because it is something they believe strongly in and they're willing to sacrifice anything for it. The fact that they end up older because of this is a complete afterthought and inconsequential in the decision.

I'm not going to argue if missions help or not. I'm sure in some ways they do (physically, mentally, emotionally) and in other ways they don't (2 years of no serious training). But don't cheapen their personal experience and sacrifice by saying these guys are going on missions so they can take advantage of a loophole.

FINISH!!!!!

FINISH!!!!!

FINISH!!!!!

FINISH!!!!!

FINISH!!!!!

FINISH!!!!!

FINISH!!!!!

FINISH!!!!!

FINISH!!!!!`

FINISH!!!!!

FINISH!!!!!

YES!!!

YES!!!

YES!!!

YES!!!

YES!!!

YES!!!

YES!!!

YES!!!

Byu went 1,3,4

YYYYEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!