BYU is good, Their** men are.. well... more men, than the rest

Now that they can leave on an LDS church mission at 18, I guess some could leave soon after graduating high school and then return in two years. They would enroll Fall semester at 20 years of age. Then they would have 5 years to get their 4 years in.

Or other teams could recruit Mormon kids to benefit from the same rule.

Wait, they already do that? Never mind, then.

Please identify the specific physiological changes that occur between 23 and 25 that confer said advantage.

Ollllldtimmmers wrote:

BYU takes major advantage of NCAA "religious exception" rule in regards to an athlete's 5 year clock.

This isn't a religious exception as it also applies to the Peace Corps. If a 2-year gap is really an advantage, it's a wonder that every coach in the NCAA isn't pushing their athletes towards Peace Corps service.

moist wrote:

Please identify the specific physiological changes that occur between 23 and 25 that confer said advantage.

Running lore tells us that you do not run your best times until you have been training hard for 7 years. Assuming that the BYU students are able to train when they are on mission (a lot of the missions are in cushy places like Japan and Europe), the BYU students have more time to mature as an athlete than someone who is in and out of a program in 4 years.

There is nothing stopping other runners from taking 1-2 gap years before starting college. They could also train full time instead of going on a mission.

Precious Roy wrote:

moist wrote:

Please identify the specific physiological changes that occur between 23 and 25 that confer said advantage.

Running lore tells us that you do not run your best times until you have been training hard for 7 years. Assuming that the BYU students are able to train when they are on mission

Then this is where the argument falls apart. Mormon runners say they're lucky to get 30 minutes a day. I've never heard of a Mormon athlete able to come anywhere close to "training hard" during that time.

Sounds like a lot of whining by the OP.

The rule applies to anyone. BYU isn't the only team that can have athletes in missions. These guys are spending 2 years with no training. That creates a massive drop in fitness. Conner Mantz came back and did a 5k time trial. He ran somewhere around 17:30. Two of BYU's top runners didn't even serve missions. Rory Linkeletter and Connor McMillan. People don't like to serve missions after college because it's way more inconvenient. After college, everyone wants to start working, get married (many actually do it while still in college), have kids, etc. Going on a mission stops you from doing those things until you get back. So obviously they want to go before college. BYU gets most of their athletes from one state. And they've developed them into great runners. Stop complaining that they're good.

Jayordon wrote:

The rule applies to anyone. BYU isn't the only team that can have athletes in missions. These guys are spending 2 years with no training. That creates a massive drop in fitness. Conner Mantz came back and did a 5k time trial. He ran somewhere around 17:30. Two of BYU's top runners didn't even serve missions. Rory Linkeletter and Connor McMillan. People don't like to serve missions after college because it's way more inconvenient. After college, everyone wants to start working, get married (many actually do it while still in college), have kids, etc. Going on a mission stops you from doing those things until you get back. So obviously they want to go before college. BYU gets most of their athletes from one state. And they've developed them into great runners. Stop complaining that they're good.

Some of them spend 2 years in no training. But lets be honest, if you love running and you have free time, what are you going to do?

Wouldn't someone college educated be better able to help people and persuade them of the rightness of their religion than a kid just out of hs? BYU students should do their mission after college.

Kvothe wrote:

Some of them spend 2 years in no training. But lets be honest, if you love running and you have free time, what are you going to do?

Wouldn't someone college educated be better able to help people and persuade them of the rightness of their religion than a kid just out of hs? BYU students should do their mission after college.

Your points are irrelevant to the OP's whining. His argument is built on 2 things:

1) A 25 year old runner is advantaged over a 23 year old runner

2) The 2-year pause on the eligibility clock is unique to Mormons

Both are false. Unless you can name physiological advantages that magically occur between age 23 and 25, this should be /thread.

Massive advantage for a 25 year old over a 18 year old. Let all the BYU juniors go on a mission, but when they return they aren't eligible any more. They can get married and have all the kids they want. Everybody knows that it is cheating, especially the ones doing it. I'd like to know of one ncaa athlete that went into the Peace Corps before graduating, and then came back to compete. That argument doesn't hold up.

Simple solution: everybody gets five years after leaving high school to finish ncaa eligibility. Go on all the missions you want, but the time still tolls. In fact, why don't they go on their little missions when they are high school juniors?

But this isn't a carve out for BYU only, it could apply to any church or military service or peace corps.

It's a matter of priorities. If more US students delayed their entry into college after 2 years in Peace Corp or military it would probably be good for them.

Your logic is all kinds of screwed up.

brigham likes em young wrote:

Massive advantage for a 25 year old over a 18 year old.

Why are you pitting the super senior against the true freshman? BYU has 18 year olds. And 19, 20, 21... well you should get the point.

It's 25 vs 23, or the marginal 2 years of mission service. Really, this isn't rocket science.

brigham likes em young wrote: I'd like to know of one ncaa athlete that went into the Peace Corps before graduating, and then came back to compete. That argument doesn't hold up.

You're proving the point. If 2 years away is such an advantage.....

brigham likes em young wrote:Simple solution: everybody gets five years after leaving high school to finish ncaa eligibility. Go on all the missions you want, but the time still tolls.

If there are no physiological changes from 23 to 25 (there aren't), and 2 years away isn't an advantage (it isn't), then why change anything? Every athlete has the opportunity to take 2 years away for religious or non-religious service. The field is already level.

This argument has been played out over so many letsrun threads, and I haven't seen a new point in any of them.

The NCAA also hasn't changed the rule.

This might be a shocker, but I guess the head of the NCAA doesn't look at letsrun

Outdoors 2018, BYU had 7 all-Americans (dist/mid-dist). 4 served missions (57%) and 3 didn't (43%)

Their roster showed 16/22 serving missions (73%) and 6/22 not serving missions (27%) for dist/mid-dist for that season.

Those that didn't serve missions were represented more as all-Americans than those that served missions (43%/27% = 159%).

Analysis was with small numbers and didn't take into account how good they were coming into the school.

Looks like mission service may have been detrimental to the average performance (they should go on missions anyways IMO because I think it is far more important that running). Taking two-years off and then coming back has to have at least a significant effect on the year you come back.

Precious Roy...I take it you are one that is not well read, and you do not do your due diligence on much that you decide to speak on?

If you had done your due diligence on this matter, you would understand that these missions are very energy depleting and training is very minimal. No one gains fitness on these missions, and going two years without training does not benefit them.

I agree with blamb61. I also went on a mission (in the US), and we had 30 minutes of exercise time three days a week. We also had a half day off every week (had to work in the evening), but that time was spent for grocery shopping, laundry, writing family, leisure activities (e.g. playing half-court basketball because full-court was deemed "too dangerous"), etc. Missionaries are way too busy working (60+ hours a week of proselyting and another ~20 studying) to do a lot of running.

You cry babies have no sense of history.

I graduated from HS in 1978 at 17 years old.

My freshman year 1979 the NCAA 10k was won by another freshman from UTEP. HE WAS 26 YEARS OLD as a freshman. He went on to win the 10k all 4 years and graduated as a 29 year old. Don’t believe me? Look it up.

Not fake news wrote:

Get rid of the rule. Let BYU do the missions or not, but let's not have a rule that really only benefits one school.

This notion that BYU is the only school that is allowed to have older athletes is just that, there's no merit to it. I took a small sampling which consists of the top international athletes from the top teams in the NCAA. (Ranked #8 or higher)

For those I could find birth dates for it wasn't hard to find a bunch of elite athletes from other schools who have athletes older or just as old as BYU's. These athletes didn't even have to stop training for two years!

Men

Axel Huburt 23 year old freshman

Divine Oduduru 22 year old Junior (redshirt available)

BENJAMIN LOBO VEDEL 21 year old sophmore (redshirt available)

Clayton Brown 22 year old Junior (redshirt available)

Thomas Mardel 22 year old Sophmore (redshirt available)

Anders Eriksson 25 year old Senior

Max Vollmer 21 year old Freshman

Orwin Emilien 24 year old Senior

Jonathan Jones 20 year old Freshman (redshirt available)

O’Brien Wasome 22 year old junior (redshirt available)

Woman

Janeek Brown 21 year old sophomore (redshirt available)

Carina Viljoen 22 year old junior (redshirt available)

Militsa Mircheva 25 year old senior

Rougui Sow 24 year old senior (turns 25 in 3 days)

Laura Paredes 22 year old Sophmore (redshirt available)

Veronika Kanuchova 26 year old Junior

Mauricia Prieto 23 year old Junior

Adva Cohen 23 year old Sophmore

Ednah Kurgat 27 year old Senior (turns 28 on the 15th)

Carmela Cardama Baez 22 year old Junior (redshirt available)

Looks like someones barking up the wrong tree.