Caster Semenya to run 2000m and 3000m ... how does this make sense?

I was saying she got lucky. She was born a women with female genitalia. I don't care what she has going on inside she is a woman. If a man with down syndrome was throwing a shot put 100+ feet because of his extra chromosomes would you ban him or make him take some type of hormonal therapy?

Armstronglivs wrote:

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM wrote:

this topic is so played out - Caster is woman, born with a vagina. She should be competing with other women regardless of the event. Sorry to all the women who have to compete against her but you got unlucky. Just like all the people who had to race against Bolt, Phelps, etc, etc.

If you are born with a vagina you should be allowed to compete versus women. End of story.

Thanks

Caster is XY - just like every other male competitor. She has testes - just like every other male competitor. She has no ovaries and no womb - just like every other male competitor - and unlike every other female competitor. You were saying?

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM wrote:

I was saying she got lucky. She was born a women with female genitalia. I don't care what she has going on inside she is a woman.

If a man with down syndrome was throwing a shot put 100+ feet because of his extra chromosomes would you ban him or make him take some type of hormonal therapy?

Armstronglivs wrote:

Caster is XY - just like every other male competitor. She has testes - just like every other male competitor. She has no ovaries and no womb - just like every other male competitor - and unlike every other female competitor. You were saying?

Down Syndrome is not a trait of sex or gender - quite apart from the fact it offers no athletic advantage. Your example is irrelevant. You say you don't care "what is going on inside Semenya" because you have no idea what is at issue. She is biologically male - not female - with levels of testosterone that only males can have. That isn't compatible with a category restricted to biological females. Even if Semenya has external female genitalia that doesn't change the fact her genetics are male, and when it comes to a female category in sport genetics are crucial. Otherwise it becomes an open category and anyone can compete, including males. XX women would have no chance, as they show against XY Semenya and other DSD and trans athletes.

What is on her birth certificate? That's what gender she should compete against regardless of internal biology. I know what the issue is. She is a woman who won the athletics genetic lottery and is being discriminated against. It's appalling what is being done to her.

Correction: it is appalling what is being done to other women. If you are quite happy with biological males competing as women then there is no logical justification for a separate women's category of sport; only open categories. All women lose - and athletes like Semenya luck out of the lottery you think she has won.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Correction: it is appalling what is being done to other women. If you are quite happy with biological males competing as women then there is no logical justification for a separate women's category of sport; only open categories. All women lose - and athletes like Semenya luck out of the lottery you think she has won.

No we have to protect minorities because they are the ones who need it. In order to do that the majority need to make some small sacrifices. Take the fluff on the home page from the site owners where they first of all say the trio's times are out of reach for the people they label XX (without any basis but lets not get too pedantic) then two sentences later they admit Wilson has run 156 too! In fact last year Wilson was FASTER than Wambui and Goule was only .3s slower than Niyonsaba (who was usually flat out trying to keep up with Semenya). Hardly the massive hard luck story some make out is it.

The yearly rankings lists are worth further study. Going back to 2017 we find again Wilson was faster than Wambui and a modest 0.14s slower than Niyonsaba. Still outraged? 14 hundredths of a second.

How does all that tie in with the IAAF 'study'? I'm struggling, unless of course aj is also a problem person too. We may never know since this summer she can use the 'no-one to tow me' excuse for running slower.

The rich are a minority. 1% of the world's population owns 50% of its resources. I guess we should be protecting them, too.

id love to see her in the sprints.she'd have to be super quick.sure,she ran a 49.8 400,1.54 800,and 3.59 1500 meters,all the while looking like she was jogging.she looked capable of running 48.5,1.51,and 3.50 ,so id say she has a 22.1 200 in her legs,or even faster.she always held back,so she could dominate,but not be too dominant.shes a middle distance runner,not a true sprinter,but she always shows a great turn of speed in all her races.when she ran her 49.8 400 meters,she showed amazing leg speed and power,at the end of the race,with a faster finish than all the other women,by far.

Normally I respect your response but this is trash. Be better.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM wrote:

Normally I respect your response but this is trash. Be better.

Armstronglivs wrote:

The rich are a minority. 1% of the world's population owns 50% of its resources. I guess we should be protecting them, too.

You miss the point. Not all minorities need protecting - as I said above - and in the case of womens sport it is the majority that needs protecting, or they will lose their sport. DSD athletes are 140 times more represented in elite sport than in the general population, because they have an advantage over XX females. They are a minority who should have no place in women's sport, because their participation is unfair to the majority.

jeff tallon wrote:

id love to see her in the sprints.she'd have to be super quick.sure,she ran a 49.8 400,1.54 800,and 3.59 1500 meters,all the while looking like she was jogging.she looked capable of running 48.5,1.51,and 3.50 ,so id say she has a 22.1 200 in her legs,or even faster.she always held back,so she could dominate,but not be too dominant.shes a middle distance runner,not a true sprinter,but she always shows a great turn of speed in all her races.when she ran her 49.8 400 meters,she showed amazing leg speed and power,at the end of the race,with a faster finish than all the other women,by far.

Speed endurance isn't the same as top-end speed. Smell wasn't as fast as some of his rivals but had better speed endurance. If Semenya had more top-end speed she would have been a sprinter, not a middle distance athlete. I doubt she could break 23 for the 200. Maybe 23xx.

Armstronglivs wrote:

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM wrote:

Normally I respect your response but this is trash. Be better.

You miss the point. Not all minorities need protecting - as I said above - and in the case of womens sport it is the majority that needs protecting, or they will lose their sport. DSD athletes are 140 times more represented in elite sport than in the general population, because they have an advantage over XX females. They are a minority who should have no place in women's sport, because their participation is unfair to the majority.

Why so reluctant to discuss the actual data?

Why aren't you interested in how the IAAF 'scientists' concluded dsd gives an unfair advantage to Wambui (slow) and Nyonsaba (basically same times as Wilson and Goule). It sounds like a law just for Semenya who I agree is untouchable at her top event.

Armstronglivs wrote:

You miss the point. Not all minorities need protecting - as I said above - and in the case of womens sport it is the majority that needs protecting, or they will lose their sport. DSD athletes are 140 times more represented in elite sport than in the general population, because they have an advantage over XX females. They are a minority who should have no place in women's sport, because their participation is unfair to the majority.

Did you see the last US XC trial results? Did you notice an over representation of a minority group in the top 7?

Are you saying that this minority group has no place in US men XC, because their participation is unfair to the majority?

What you are saying sounds very 1950ish

Should they also sit in the back of the bus and not be allowed in the same bathrooms?

Yes its me again wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You miss the point. Not all minorities need protecting - as I said above - and in the case of womens sport it is the majority that needs protecting, or they will lose their sport. DSD athletes are 140 times more represented in elite sport than in the general population, because they have an advantage over XX females. They are a minority who should have no place in women's sport, because their participation is unfair to the majority.

Why so reluctant to discuss the actual data?

Why aren't you interested in how the IAAF 'scientists' concluded dsd gives an unfair advantage to Wambui (slow) and Nyonsaba (basically same times as Wilson and Goule). It sounds like a law just for Semenya who I agree is untouchable at her top event.

World all time list at 800m:

4 Semenya

15 Nyonsaba

62 Wambui yes only 0.03s faster than Mary Decker-Slaney!! What an advantage her condition must give her!

Her/their "condition" is being XY - biologically male, with male levels of testosterone as well as male bones, muscles and cardiovascular advantage. Only someone with their head in the sand is unable to see what that means in sport. Men are consistently bigger, stronger and faster than women - 10%-20% higher performing at elite level. An average male is better than the best women. Actually, schoolboys in their early teens are better than the best women. An uncomfortable fact for some here but true nonetheless. Studies that purport to prove otherwise aren't science but ideology.

ordinarily id agree with you,(and yes,youre correct about the top end speed)but i watched her race in the 400,when she ran 49.8.she looked like she was casually jogging,then put in a turbo boost at the very end,to beat the field.if,as i suspect,shes really a 1.51 800 runner,who can run 400s in 48.5 or even quicker,a 22.1 doesnt seem far fetched.also throw in that she has an intersex condition,and probably xy chromosones,and youve got a highly talented athlete who could run times far beyond what a woman can run.many 1.50 male 800 meter runners can probably run a low 22 200 meters,or at least under 22.5..

jeff tallon wrote:

ordinarily id agree with you,(and yes,youre correct about the top end speed)but i watched her race in the 400,when she ran 49.8.she looked like she was casually jogging,then put in a turbo boost at the very end,to beat the field.if,as i suspect,shes really a 1.51 800 runner,who can run 400s in 48.5 or even quicker,a 22.1 doesnt seem far fetched.also throw in that she has an intersex condition,and probably xy chromosones,and youve got a highly talented athlete who could run times far beyond what a woman can run.many 1.50 male 800 meter runners can probably run a low 22 200 meters,or at least under 22.5..

Jeff, she is a fairly average male athlete. That's 49.8 for 400. Her finish in that race wasn't about acceleration but that she slowed less than her competitors. That's about strength. You are suggesting she has the top-end speed of elite 800 males - around 22xx for 200. (For example, Snell was a 1.44 and 22.3 guy. ) I don't think Semenya could get near 1.50. I think 1.54 is about her limit. If she has sprint speed, as you seem to think, why is she now running the 3k and maybe the 5k?