Running more miles but getting slower

Look at this chart, there's always a dip before improvement.

https://slideplayer.com/slide/6488766/22/images/21/Skill+Improvement+National+Training+Lab+Implementation+Dip.jpg

You are not that slow. The fact you are as fast as you are before ramping mileage up is a great sign. Stick with it and the times will improve.

The fact that you are more interested in the times themselves than the pure enjoyment of the sport would concern me far more than your actual times. Relax and enjoy the process (ups and downs)

Yes but it’s still unbelievably frustrating and I want to get better. I really do. That’s why I’ve been putting in the extra work.

I am talentless compared to this community. I will never run a sub 16 5k or a sub 35 10k. I’m not comparing myself to others. I am comparing myself to me at age 29 when I was setting PRs. I want to get to 18:30 5k and 39 10k. I want to run a 1:28 half or a 3:10 full.

This is why I run. And this is why I post here today. I would like to learn from those who are way more talented than I am. I want to chip away at my times.

How long have you been running?

Those are all respectable times though your half/marathon is a bit soft compared to 5k/10k Times.

If you’re 10 years in, that may be your ceiling.

If this is your 18 month after never running, or since HS, you need to give it more time.

The reality is a sub-19 5k puts you in the top of the “Local-Class” or bottom of “Regional-Class” according to WAVA age graded results (~68%).

You may also want to look into a good running coach. A lot of runners tend to sabotage their own training with crazy workouts, too little rest, not allowing adaptations, etc. Often having accountability for easy days/hard days/rest days is all a runner needs. We all know the runners that never run hard and waste potential and the runners who run 100% all the time and never replicate training paces during a race.

Finally, LR is filled with runners of all ability. Most can’t run sub-20 in the 5k or have never seen the other side of 4 in the marathon. They stay quiet or only post about running news, shoes, etc. Doesn’t mean they aren’t students of the sport because they aren’t fast.

Another finally, when I was 29/30, I was running 70mpw+ and hit just about all the times you did, minus the half which I ran a couple minutes faster. A few years ago, I got a coach, cut my mileage nearly in half, and ran all those times again (with a couple PRs).

Still, I’m nothing amazing though I do well at local races and get adulations from running friends (which feels great). Racing at big events I’m happy to be in the Top 5% and know this is about as good as I’m going to be.

Ok you run 70 miles per week, but where is the quality? Do you run at race pace for any significant period of time? Does anything in your training simulate what it is like to go all out over 18-20 min(a 5k race.)

I need 50 miles per week to even comfortably break 6. I wouild kill for your times.

What have you been doing for workouts? Singles?

This is frustrating to read. Your times already let you finish in the top 10% of most road races, sometimes you can even place top 3 in your age-group. 1:30 half, sub 40 10k and 3:30 full are the dreams of many hobby joggers and with those times most runners in running clubs would look up to you. You should be happy for your gift to run every day, injury free and be able to be much faster than average population.

Now to the real issues - for 60-70 mpw, the times are indeed very slow. There is a bad relationship between time and training effort and actual results. This could either mean very low talent, but much more common are inefficient training methods or not being able to suffer enough in races. I would focus on the things you can actually improve, which is your training regimen and mental strength.

Just running x amount of miles a week will not get you faster. Each run needs to have a purpose, and you need to alternate shorter with longer runs, faster with slower runs, and interval sessions if you really want to get a good bang for your buck.

It is interesting to follow your comments here on the boards . Not because they are so very good , more like they range from you told being coached by a coach that use Tinman ideas , and now and some more comments where you `play` and pretend to be an experienced knowledgeable coach. I give you an advice, skip that talk about `not being able to suffer enough` because that is just nonsense.

It is time for you to get a very good online coach that knows how to succeed on relatively low mileage.

A slow runner said: To do so I was willing to put in more work. That means more miles and more time running.

that ain't necessarily so.

don't train hard, train clever.

the best diet is generally agreed to be a varied diet, and training schedules are a bit like that too; you need a variety of training, different distances and different paces. if there is no variety in your training your chances for improvement are limited. so, show us what a week of your training looks like and we might be able to suggest some improvements.

cheers.

I'm not a coach, but here's my advice. You cannot optimally train for the half/full marathon and the mile/5k at the same time.

My suggestion is that you ditch the half and full marathons. Marathon training makes you slow and reduces your testosterone levels. That's my opinion. Lots of slow twitch guys might feel differently, but if you have a mix of slow and fast twitch, distance training may be wiping you out to the point that you can't get in quality interval and tempos to help your 1500/5k times.

You can't even optimally train for the 1500 and the 5000 at the same time. My advice would be to pick a distance and train for it.

In 2015, I switched from the 800/1500 to train exclusively for the 400m for TWO YEARS! My 5k times became pathetic. My mile times got worse, but I got better in the 400 and held my own in the 800.

1. You're not slow

2. I am talentless compared to this community - wrong again

Do not listen to those saying you need to keep working this way. Think about it just for a moment - if you haven't progressed for couple of months, you obviously are doing something wrong. If you have regressed you definitely have been doing something very very wrong. Stop this before you screw your hematology, immune or endocrine systems.

High mileage makes you slow if not balanced with strength and quality workouts because you lose what you don't use. Also aerobic buildup doesn't require months of base running - after 6-7 weeks you won't gain much mitochondrial benefits unless you increase mileage substantially even more. And you can build aerobic base simultaneously doing quality work as well, just don't race often during that time.

I strongly believe that quality and recovery is more important than quantity. This means that you run 2 workouts per week + 1 long run and the rest is just recovery miles and nothing more to buffer the quality work. Infact I have never done only plain base buildup for more than 2-3 weeks straight and usually this is just once per year in autumn when resuming training after week off. Other than that year round I run 2 quality workouts + 1 long run per week (basically Daniels phase II with some variations) and keep my mileage only high enough that I feel sharp. With this approach on 50 mpw I have ran 1:15 half, 16:34 5k and I don't have high school/college running background.

My experience with upping mileage is it pays off big time--but usually that payoff isn't obvious until 2-6+ months after you bump up your mileage and you adapt to the workload. If you try to time trial or race and your body is still adapting, you will feel slow and sluggish and underperform because you are under-recovered. Finally, make sure you are keeping the turnover up by doing strides after most easy runs and incorporating at least one faster workout per week (or even race, if you can keep your expectations in check and not expect to PR every time) and not just slogging around so neuromuscularly you can use the increased aerobic fitness. If you can't execute a workout (it doesn't have to be perfect--you don't have to hit your splits perfectly, etc., but just a little bit of faster running) 1-2x a week, then back off the mileage a bit until you find a balance where you can integrate some quality in balance with the volume.

Good luck--the aerobic development from running more miles is a long game where you need to think in terms of months and even years, rather than weeks. Given that your half and full are pretty soft relative to your 5K/10K, if you can be patient you will probably see big dividends in your longer races if you are able to healthy maintain higher mileage over a longer period of time.

Also--another thing if you are feeling angry and emotional, make sure you aren't overtrained. You might just need to back off with a recovery week or two to allow for adaptations. Also look into your diet and sleep. Upping mileage is hard on your body, and a lot of the time it can be something as simple as not having low ferritin, which is more common among female runners, but happens with men too due to foot strike hemolysis.

You increased your mileage but your body hasn't adapted to it yet. As a result, your body is tired. One week of lower mileage just isn't enough to fix it. Remember, we're talking about physical adaptations your body has to make to get used to the increased activity. It's as slow as building muscle.

When I went from 45 to 70 mpw I got dead legs. My workouts were sucking and I felt like I was going backwards. It took some time to adjust. I didn't see the improvement until the next season, where I ran a mile, 5k, and half marathon PRs. The road is just a little bit longer than you're looking right now. Stick with it.

You're not slow by any means. Some things to think about:

1. You might want to give yourself more time to adapt to the mileage and reintroduce hard workouts at that mileage.

2. Not everyone responds well to more mileage. Some runners do better on lower mileage with more rest and intensity.

3. Some coaches argue that improvement comes from additional quality-paced miles, not just additional miles. This is true for some runners.

You can't chase 5 rabbits