Young fit women have the same Bq standard as elderly men.. why is this even a thing ???

A lot of the men on this board criticize Caster Semenya for having an unfair advantage over other female runners because she has higher testerone levels that make her more man than woman. But then you complain that the BQ standard for women is too soft compared to men. Which is it? If women can’t run as fast due to biological differences from men, then why shouldn’t their BQ standard be softer?

I guess an argument could be made that the BQ standard is still too soft for women even accounting for that difference, but there may be other valid reasons for that such as the desire for the marathon not to be a sausage fest and women spend more on merch at the expo (my guess), etc.

The Boston Marathon is not a meritocracy; otherwise they would only accept the fastest X number of applicants and all you older hobbyjogging men would be SOL.

3:35 for a 57 yo male is 68% age graded

3:35 for a 37 yo female is 64%

The 68% age graded time for a 37 yo female is 3:22

Age grading isn’t really fair seeing as world class women have more male characteristics than Hobby joggers (3:00+ marathon)

nmRUNNERgirl wrote:

And men also got their own private urinals this year at the Athlete’s Village, so they got more restrooms before the race. Meanwhile despite this, there were still plenty of men standing in line for the Port a Potties with the women, therefore increasing the amount of time women had to stand in line for the restroom (story of our lives).

Terrible post. You can't #2 in a urinal. Those urinals probably made the porta potty situation much better than past years.

And why do women take so much longer? Shalane was in and out in under 20 seconds last year during the marathon. We know it's possible not to take forever. :).

59 year old men generally do not go spending hundreds or thousands of dollars at the expo. Also, nobody wants to see a bunch of old wrinkly men in split shorts jogging down the street.

BQ ...is actually a big deal to a ton of people. It is an epic challenge for most people and is awesome for that reason. Running 26.2 miles at BQ pace isn’t that easy unless you are at some peak moment in your life.

When your super young or in awesome shape it sounds easy, but that peak moment might eventually fade and that standard won’t seem so small. It might be when your 40,50,60...or after you have a few kids or cancer. At some point in life your job or family will take over or be chaos ....someone will die or will be ill...you might get sick yourself and almost die...you will get hurt...or fat....you’ll need something to help you quit drinking or fix some mental demons you just can’t put to rest. The BQ standard is an obstacle that isn’t impossible but at some point in life will feel like it.

For me ...I ran it again to remember a good friend and a great coach. I ran it to remember my brother and celebrate my marriage. During the training and the race itself it brought back a ton of awesome memories. It’s a great race and a great standard.

33 year old male wrote:

59 year old men generally do not go spending hundreds or thousands of dollars at the expo. Also, nobody wants to see a bunch of old wrinkly men in split shorts jogging down the street.

^^^ What he said;)

Having mentioned it previously, I have nothing against women standards as they are. Let more of them run at Boston, bring it in to the proper population M/F ratio, I'm fine with it... Come on boys, it isn't that hard to BQ if you are an average runner, speaking from my own experience;) Stop b*tching and get on running!

The dirty secret is that a lot of women, esp. in journalism/PR/healthcare, make more than men. Women are better communicators and have networks, so they are able to get ahead in those jobs. I worked in healthcare and journalism for a few years and did well, but women doing hiring would always promote other women.

You are right on the degrees.

The only advantages for men are tech/coding/computers/IT, and also manual jobs that are in demand (trades) that are blue-collar, but you can make good $$$ with that.

The good middle-class office jobs belong to women now.

I know a lot of guys that train very well for years that can't hit the standard, my girlfriend was not athletic at all growing up and has been running for only two years and she will beat the standard by 15 minutes at least.. And her first half marathon she ran well over 2:15...the standards are way too soft and I see women that have the ability to train well and easily BQ and they don't have the will to do it even with the goal being very achievable. No young woman that is in reasonable shape and healthy should be running slower than the BQ standard if they've been training over 35MPW for more than a year. That's how easy the standard is.

Mc Splatter wrote:

It sometimes happens, but they generally frown on pooping in the standup urinals. Makes it hard for the next user.

Wait, we weren't supposed to poop in those? Sorry, I didn't get the memo.

yea there was a strava based analytics report that showed this data rather clearly with respect to BQs,

women that went on to have a BW marathon run dramtically less mpw, and less often, and have a reduced buildup relative to men, and as it was already posted, maintain roughly a ~15 minute AG adjusted advantage in qualifying

not sure what else needs to be said? The standard for women is far, far easier, and it is also true the race is not a meritocracy, its not attempting to match running demographics as far as I can tell, it just seems to have some quasi random distribution with respect to charity/elite and hobby jogger age groups and seems to have a reasonable [but male biased] gender mix

I think it is true that there are more overall female marathon runners now in the country [maybe not internationally, tho] and who knows what Bostons algorithm is for admission outside the time bands they post, clearly they are aiming for some sort of gender/age group distribution and are more or less hitting it.

Personally I think the female standard should soften further so that participation gets close to 50:50 gender wise

59 year ols wrote:

Young fit women have the same Bq standard as elderly men

There is a separate BQ specifically for young fit women? Do young unfit women have a different BQ?

M 45-49 wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

I agree that the women's BQ standards are soft compared to the men's, but women have only been allowed to run Boston for the past few years, so boo hoo.

Yeah, "just a few", like 47 years.

You should really let this one go.

Why do you think the standards should soften further when they are already a joke? I think the standards should get tougher for males and females.

I think for your grumpy old, former ncaa cross country, middle d LRC guy (like myself), Boston marathon is a overhyped social media fest. But the mass participation does allow for very good race support (excellent water/fuel stops, massive port a potty presence, snazzy race t shirts) so I’m not complaining. The bottom of the iceberg supports the top, which makes for a nice deep field below 2:50 and so good company to pace off of on a good or bad day.

Why get worked up about it, really?

Well, I know a lot of women who train much more than 35 miles per week, and have been doing so for years, that couldn't run a marathon in under 4:30. Your imaginary girlfriend (let's face it, this is LetsRun.com) is more talented than most women if she can run so little and qualify.

NotABigDeal wrote:

I think for your grumpy old, former ncaa cross country, middle d LRC guy (like myself), Boston marathon is a overhyped social media fest. But the mass participation does allow for very good race support (excellent water/fuel stops, massive port a potty presence, snazzy race t shirts) so I’m not complaining. The bottom of the iceberg supports the top, which makes for a nice deep field below 2:50 and so good company to pace off of on a good or bad day.

Why get worked up about it, really?

They are getting worked up over it because they can't qualify so they have to blame someone. It couldn't be their fault.

Or maybe your girlfriend is just more talented than those guys. Going from 2:15 half to a sub-3:30 marathon in 2 years means she is a high responder to training. Most women I know who hit their BQ standard train closer to 50ish mpw (maybe peaking at 60ish) unless they ran in college or have an extensive athletic background.

I saw that Strava analysis, if you are referring to this:

I think one thing to keep in mind is that a female BQer runs on average 0:45 seconds/mile slower. So while women run less mileage, the difference isn't *that* dramatic if you consider training hours as volume rather than mileage.