Does the * for Boston times only apply to runners we don't like?

It only applies when there are win tunnels that make the times 4 minutes faster.

Wind*

Hggg wrote:

It only applies when there are win tunnels that make the times 4 minutes faster.

Where can I buy these win tunnels?

It is interesting to see that when you look at an American Marathon list, nearly every American who is done with their career and ran Boston, has a PR run there. A few all-time greats also have PRs run at other NRE courses.

Many others (like Sandoval, Bjorklund, Hodge, Lodwick -- 2:10 runners all) also ran their PR on an NRE course.

2:08:47a -- Bob Kempainen

2:08:51a -- Alberto Salazar

2:08:53a -- Dick Beardsley

2:09:00a -- Greg Meyer

2:09:27a Bill Rodgers (first, second, 4th and 5th best times were at Boston)

2:09:31a Ron Tabb

2:09:57a Benji Durden

2:10:07a Ed Mendoza

2:10:16a Jeff Wells

2:10:27a Craig Virgin

2:11:18a Jack Fultz

2:11:25a Michael Layman

2:11:26a Randy Thomas

Hggg wrote:

It only applies when there are win tunnels that make the times 4 minutes faster.

The ghost of Pat Davey wrote:

It is interesting to see that when you look at an American Marathon list, nearly every American who is done with their career and ran Boston, has a PR run there. A few all-time greats also have PRs run at other NRE courses.

Many others (like Sandoval, Bjorklund, Hodge, Lodwick -- 2:10 runners all) also ran their PR on an NRE course.

2:08:47a -- Bob Kempainen

2:08:51a -- Alberto Salazar

2:08:53a -- Dick Beardsley

2:09:00a -- Greg Meyer

2:09:27a Bill Rodgers (first, second, 4th and 5th best times were at Boston)

2:09:31a Ron Tabb

2:09:57a Benji Durden

2:10:07a Ed Mendoza

2:10:16a Jeff Wells

2:10:27a Craig Virgin

2:11:18a Jack Fultz

2:11:25a Michael Layman

2:11:26a Randy Thomas

Rodgers did run like a 2:08 flat marathon in Japan, if I remember right he was racing against a high school Ekiden team. Though the course was found to be 150 meters short. So that effort would be equivalent to be a bit under2:09 flat. Not sure on the course though.

The ghost of Pat Davey wrote:

It is interesting to see that when you look at an American Marathon list, nearly every American who is done with their career and ran Boston, has a PR run there. A few all-time greats also have PRs run at other NRE courses.

Many others (like Sandoval, Bjorklund, Hodge, Lodwick -- 2:10 runners all) also ran their PR on an NRE course.

2:08:47a -- Bob Kempainen

2:08:51a -- Alberto Salazar

2:08:53a -- Dick Beardsley

2:09:00a -- Greg Meyer

2:09:27a Bill Rodgers (first, second, 4th and 5th best times were at Boston)

2:09:31a Ron Tabb

2:09:57a Benji Durden

2:10:07a Ed Mendoza

2:10:16a Jeff Wells

2:10:27a Craig Virgin

2:11:18a Jack Fultz

2:11:25a Michael Layman

2:11:26a Randy Thomas

Any reason you left out 2:04:58 Ryan Hall?

A slight consideration wrote:

Rodgers did run like a 2:08 flat marathon in Japan, if I remember right he was racing against a high school Ekiden team. Though the course was found to be 150 meters short. So that effort would be equivalent to be a bit under2:09 flat. Not sure on the course though.

I did not know about him racing against a relay team. I did know that the course was short. Short courses clearly do not count for anything.

FWIW, I think Rodgers was capable of 2:08:xx easy under the conditions of the 70s or 80s (no rabbits, fewer vehicles to draft) on an RE course, maybe even faster. He just did not really have that situation that often. Frank Shorter would have also. He knew this.

When you watch these modern marathons, it is amazing how many vehicles are all over the front pushing the wind out of the way, and there are pacers, not to mention how flat and fast the major marathons are now (Berlin, Rotterdam, Dubai, Paris, Amsterdam, London, etc.). I realize that Boston is not a "fast" or easy course, but when the weather is cool and there is a following wind, people have historically run their fastest times there. Now Fauble and Ward have done it too. I hope they go to Berlin or Rotterdam or anywhere with a loop course and bust a 2:08 or faster someday. Otherwise they have just grown the list longer.

To the guy that asked about Ryan Hall, the answer is: I could not remember his time (2:04:02?), and it was SSOOOOO far out there as an aided time that I just didn't look it up. Most of the other times were off the top of my head. Nearly everyone on that list ran an RE time within 1:00 of their aided times, Ryan Hall did not, he was more than 2:20 back.

Ryan Hall fastest eligible time is 2:06:17 and his Boston time 2:04:58.

OK, I see that it was 2:04:58 (see why I didn't cite him?) and that is about the same as most Americans have as a difference between their NRE-best and their RE-best (1:19 for Hall). So he is probably the best example of why you shouldn't list your PR as that if you achieved it at Boston.

Ron Tabb ran plenty of marathons, but never ran a 2:09 except for one tailwind day at Boston. Bill Rodgers ran plenty of marathons, but never ran a 2:09 except for two tailwind days at Boston. Benji Durden ran plenty of marathons, but never ran a 2:09 except for one tailwind day at Boston. Greg Meyer ran plenty of marathons, but never ran a 2:09 except for one tailwind day at Boston. Bob Kempainen ran plenty of marathons, but never ran 2:08 except for one tailwind day at Boston.

I know that it is a difficult course and that many feel differently than I do. And I respect that differing opinion. I feel the same way about people who list their PR as what they achieved on a modern 200m or 300m banked INDOOR track as their PR. It isn't, that was achieved with the AID of banked, speedway turns and an indoor environment. Outdoor times on certified tracks count, indoor times are just a carnival.

Same with the marathon. LOOP-courses that have been rigorously measured count, NRE-courses (whether they be point-to-point or downhill) do not.