El Keniano wrote:
Superstar Cyrus Rutto has failed to make Kenyan headlines. Maybe the Western media will allocate appropriate space for this “top” Kenyan?
You dopehead wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
Superstar Cyrus Rutto has failed to make Kenyan headlines. Maybe the Western media will allocate appropriate space for this “top” Kenyan?
NO Kenyans are important. That craphole has one export: Doped up skeletal runners. They (and you) lie about their drug use, age, and probably gender). Ban those dishonest stick figures and their dim witted defenders.
Who?
Geo dood wrote:
Argh yes way wrote:
I also look at numbers online and they don't lie, so...let's try this another way: Rutto's PB is 13:03.44 - only 8 Americans have been faster with no American beating that time in the last 4 yrs.
Uhhhh an American ran faster than that less than a year ago.
No....I'm not counting the Kenyan transplants - they go with the Kenyan group.
Geo dood wrote:
Geo dood wrote:
Argh yes way wrote:
I also look at numbers online and they don't lie, so...let's try this another way: Rutto's PB is 13:03.44 - only 8 Americans have been faster with no American beating that time in the last 4 yrs.
Uhhhh an American ran faster than that less than a year ago.
....and 11 Americans in total. You can't count very well.
toptom wrote:
You dopehead wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
Superstar Cyrus Rutto has failed to make Kenyan headlines. Maybe the Western media will allocate appropriate space for this “top” Kenyan?
NO Kenyans are important. That craphole has one export: Doped up skeletal runners. They (and you) lie about their drug use, age, and probably gender). Ban those dishonest stick figures and their dim witted defenders.
You seem like a delightful person.
Let's Think This One Through wrote:
Geo dood wrote:
Argh yes way wrote:
I also look at numbers online and they don't lie, so...let's try this another way: Rutto's PB is 13:03.44 - only 8 Americans have been faster with no American beating that time in the last 4 yrs.
Uhhhh an American ran faster than that less than a year ago.
Who?
Argh yes way wrote:
Geo dood wrote:
Geo dood wrote:
Argh yes way wrote:
I also look at numbers online and they don't lie, so...let's try this another way: Rutto's PB is 13:03.44 - only 8 Americans have been faster with no American beating that time in the last 4 yrs.
Uhhhh an American ran faster than that less than a year ago.
....and 11 Americans in total. You can't count very well.
No....I'm not counting the Kenyan transplants - they go with the Kenyan group.
Paul Chelimo is a KENYAN TRANSPLANT!
Geo dood wrote:
Let's Think This One Through wrote:
Geo dood wrote:
Argh yes way wrote:
I also look at numbers online and they don't lie, so...let's try this another way: Rutto's PB is 13:03.44 - only 8 Americans have been faster with no American beating that time in the last 4 yrs.
Uhhhh an American ran faster than that less than a year ago.
Who?
PAUL CHELIMO
Stupid post - I don't think you have a clue as to what I'm talking about. So, let's try this still another way:
Geo dood wrote:
Argh yes way wrote:
Geo dood wrote:
Geo dood wrote:
Argh yes way wrote:
I also look at numbers online and they don't lie, so...let's try this another way: Rutto's PB is 13:03.44 - only 8 Americans have been faster with no American beating that time in the last 4 yrs.
Uhhhh an American ran faster than that less than a year ago.
....and 11 Americans in total. You can't count very well.
No....I'm not counting the Kenyan transplants - they go with the Kenyan group.
Oh....you're one of those people who don't understand how nationalities work. I suppose you think that it wasn't the French that won the World Cup either.
*eyeroll*
Nobody wants me dragged into yet another doping discussion.
I'll just note that adding another example to a "proof by example" does not fix the fallacy.
Yes, I did a performance analysis based on ethnic heritage rather than citizenship, being careful not to say things like "no American ran faster", which might be interpreted to include Kenyan-Americans.
Who said they look at the numbers, and numbers don't lie? Two numbers I saw:
In my look at performance, my 1990-cutoff definition of top-times was 13:02, a really fast time for 1990.
This best Kenyan 2017 WC finalist placed 13th/14th in the 2017 WC final.
I trust the AIU, that if they charged Rutto with an ABP violation, they have a solid basis for that charge, and he should be punished to the full extent in accordance with anti-doping rules.
El Keniano wrote:
Superstar Cyrus Rutto has failed to make Kenyan headlines. Maybe the Western media will allocate appropriate space for this “top” Kenyan?
C'mon rekrunner. It's clear that you've been reading all the doping posts regularly probably chopping at the bit to jump in -- and as soon as someone mentions your name, you're in full-throttle. Lol.
rekrunner wrote:
Nobody wants me dragged into yet another doping discussion.
I'll just note that adding another example to a "proof by example" does not fix the fallacy.
An for the umpteenth time, how do you know those times pre-90's were not influenced by the PEDs of that era? (which would make them faster than they should be 🤔).
rekrunner wrote:
Who said they look at the numbers, and numbers don't lie? Two numbers I saw:
In my look at performance, my 1990-cutoff definition of top-times was 13:02, a really fast time for 1990.
You must be worried about your "doping apologists" reputation? Lol.
rekrunner wrote:
I trust the AIU, that if they charged Rutto with an ABP violation, they have a solid basis for that charge, and he should be punished to the full extent in accordance with anti-doping rules.
Argh yes way wrote:
[quote]Geo dood wrote:
No....I'm not counting the Kenyan transplants - they go with the Kenyan group.
Lets Tell It Like It Is wrote:
I always thought you were simply comparing PED use of one era with another and two forms of O2-vector doping, e.g., blood-doping use pre-90's with the more available & wide-spread use of EPO, and later blood transfusions post-EPO test (for those that had the resources & money).
rekrunner wrote:
I trust the AIU, that if they charged Rutto with an ABP violation, they have a solid basis for that charge, and he should be punished to the full extent in accordance with anti-doping rules.
rekrunner wrote:
If I "defend" a person, this is not defending their doping. I guess you could say "doper apologist", but no one ever does.
It's one possibility, but one that remains irrelevant, even after umpteen times.
Maybe to be avoid confusion, I should have used a neutral reference like 1050 Purdy points, or 80 VDOT.
Just the same, using a slower "clean" pre-1990 reference will not make Rutto any faster.
Lets Tell It Like It Is wrote:
An for the umpteenth time, how do you know those times pre-90's were not influenced by the PEDs of that era? (which would make them faster than they should be 🤔).
There's plenty of evidence of wide-spread PED use pre-90's (you obviously haven't been paying attention to the history of that era - unless you really think everyone was running around on bread and water. Lol). I always thought you were simply comparing PED use of one era with another and two forms of O2-vector doping, e.g., blood-doping use pre-90's with the more available & wide-spread use of EPO, and later blood transfusions post-EPO test (for those that had the resources & money).
Geo dood wrote:
Argh yes way wrote:
Geo dood wrote:
Geo dood wrote:
Argh yes way wrote:
I also look at numbers online and they don't lie, so...let's try this another way: Rutto's PB is 13:03.44 - only 8 Americans have been faster with no American beating that time in the last 4 yrs.
Uhhhh an American ran faster than that less than a year ago.
....and 11 Americans in total. You can't count very well.
No....I'm not counting the Kenyan transplants - they go with the Kenyan group.
Oh....you're one of those people who don't understand how nationalities work. I suppose you think that it wasn't the French that won the World Cup either.
*eyeroll*
C'mon man...why is it every time a doping case is brought up and the athlete's PBs are referenced you always have to bring up those nebulous pre-1990 "cutoff" times? And if the athlete hasn't run faster than the cutoff time(s), you grandstand with that "ah-ha" moment that doping must have been ineffective. OTOH, when a doper is shown to have a faster PB than your cutoff time(s), you'll say the faster time doesn't prove that doping enhanced performance.
rekrunner wrote:
It's one possibility, but one that remains irrelevant, even after umpteen times.
Maybe to be avoid confusion, I should have used a neutral reference like 1050 Purdy points, or 80 VDOT.
Just the same, using a slower "clean" pre-1990 reference will not make Rutto any faster.
Two posters (and not me posting anonymously) mentioned my analysis and cutoff before I posted.
It is a simple fact that 13:03 is slower than 13:02, an arbitrary criteria I defined 1 year ago, in a thread looking closer at the fastest performances post-1990.
There is no "aha" moment about doping being ineffective, but just a confirmation that he was excluded from that analysis.
With respect to Mourhit, his 12:49.71 was in 2000, and his EPO bust was in 2002. If you truly want a "fair discussion", I find it's not fair to assume the conclusion, add another assumption, ignore everything else, in order to conclude the assumptions.
Chepchirchir was part of my performance analysis in the marathon, factoring in "quantity", but being 11th fastest East African, was too slow to contribute to the "quality" calculation. No need for me to discuss cutoff times. 😄 Since you ask, she did not meet the cutoff for 10K and I did not look at the 20K or HM.
Lets Tell It Like It Is wrote:
C'mon man...why is it every time a doping case is brought up and the athlete's PBs are referenced you always have to bring up those nebulous pre-1990 "cutoff" times? And if the athlete hasn't run faster than the cutoff time(s), you grandstand with that "ah-ha" moment that doping must have been ineffective. OTOH, when a doper is shown to have a faster PB than your cutoff time(s), you'll say the faster time doesn't prove that doping enhanced performance.
Case in point: Let's take Mourhit -- he has the fastest 5000 time (12:49.71) of a confirmed doper (EPO/2002). His time is ~13 seconds faster than your pre-90's "cutoff" time of 13:02, or about 1.7%. Now you have said in the past that doesn't prove anything because he could have achieve that time from improved training, better nutrition, footwear, pacers, etc. -- other factors unrelated to the blood manipulation. So, you're too incessant to have a fair discussion on these doping cases.
There's now been 2 ABP cases with Kenyans in the last couple of months. Chepchirchir was the first one and I'm surprised you haven't given the "cutoff" times to compare with with her PBs, which range from the 10k, 20k, HM & marathon. 😄
My take:
Some Kenyans will dope with EPO because it can improve their performance (sorry Renato) and they could win some prize money (most of which Mr Rosa will take).
Brits won't get busted, as they have Loughborough Uni and UK Sport, providing and funding respectively largely undetectable doping analogues which will be used in lieu of 'traditional' PEDs such as EPO.
