2012 Rio Men's 800m : has there been a faster race _at any distance?_

This is actually a good thread, much more interesting than most of the garbage that has been on the front page of late. I'm surprised none of the history buffs here has taken the bait.

I think the claim is false though, even as far as middle-distance is concerned. For example, what about the Monaco 1500m in 2015? Although Kiprop didn't set a WR, he got very close to an obviously out of this world EPO'd to the max WR of El G, and 8th place was 3:30.29. So eighth place in Monaco that night came in just over 4 seconds behind a doped to the gills WR, whereas in the London 800, 8th place was nearly 3 seconds outside the WR at half the distance. Six men went under 3:30, and ten below 3:30.5, which is more impressive than eight men under 1:44.

elikint wrote:

Thanks all! (Yes, I meant the London 2012 WR run of course)

I'm curious if anyone has ever quantified it to say THIS is the race at any distance with the most impressive performances/records -- ie there might be say a 10k racewalk event sometime with a similar shocking number of records -- but at the least the London 2012 800m and the London 2012 100m mens finals both had incredible group performances.

Well, the obvious one is the women's 3000 in Beijing in Sept 13, 1993. Junxia's WR time is perhaps the biggest outlier in all of running. But of course this may be the most blatantly suspicious race in history as well.

1 8:06.11 Wang Junxia CHN 09.01.73 1 Beijing 13.09.1993

2 8:12.18 Qu Yunxia CHN 25.12.72 2 Beijing 13.09.1993

3 8:12.19 Wang Junxia CHN 09.01.73 1h2 Beijing 12.09.1993

4 8:12.27 Qu Yunxia CHN 25.12.72 2h2 Beijing 12.09.1993

5 8:16.50 Zhang Linli CHN 06.03.73 3 Beijing 13.09.1993

6 8:19.78 Ma Liyan CHN 03.11.68 3h2 Beijing 12.09.1993

7 8:20.68 Helen Obiri KEN 13.12.89 1 Ad-Dawhah 09.05.2014

8 8:21.14 Mercy Cherono KEN 07.05.91 2 Ad-Dawhah 09.05.2014

9 8:21.26 Ma Liyan CHN 03.11.68 4 Beijing 13.09.1993

10 8:21.42 Gabriela Szabo ROU 14.11.75 1 Monaco 19.07.2002

11 8:21.64 Sonia O'Sullivan IRL 28.11.69 1 London 15.07.1994

12 8:21.84 Zhang Lirong CHN 03.03.73 5 Beijing 13.09.1993

13 8:22.06 Zhang Linli CHN 06.03.73 1h1 Beijing 12.09.1993

14 8:22.20 Paula Radcliffe GBR 17.12.73 2 Monaco 19.07.2002

15 8:22.22 Almaz Ayana ETH 21.11.91 1 Rabat 14.06.2015

16 8:22.34 Almaz Ayana ETH 21.11.91 1 Zürich 03.09.2015

17 8:22.44 Zhang Lirong CHN 03.03.73 2h1 Beijing 12.09.1993

18 8:22.62 Tatyana Kazankina RUS 17.12.51 1 Leningrad 26.08.1984

19 8:23.11 Almaz Ayana ETH 21.11.91 1 Ad-Dawhah 06.05.2016

20 8:23.14 Helen Obiri KEN 13.12.89 1 Monaco 21.07.2017

You win

Les wrote:

Whatever happened to Kitum?

Injuries. ?

Coevett wrote:

I think the claim is false though, even as far as middle-distance is concerned. For example, what about the Monaco 1500m in 2015? Although Kiprop didn't set a WR, he got very close to an obviously out of this world EPO'd to the max WR of El G, and 8th place was 3:30.29. So eighth place in Monaco that night came in just over 4 seconds behind a doped to the gills WR, whereas in the London 800, 8th place was nearly 3 seconds outside the WR at half the distance. Six men went under 3:30, and ten below 3:30.5, which is more impressive than eight men under 1:44.

Monaco is a paced meet. Any remotely comparable performance in an Olympic final is far superior. You do realize rounds exist, right?

1500m races have more runners than 800m races. You do realize that, right? Comparing number of people directly is comparing apples to oranges. Especially since the 800m was a final with a set number of people whereas Monaco is an unlimited invitational.

It was as though the earlier rounds didn't exist. Juiced or not, Rudisha is an incredible talent, but I am highly sceptical that the rest of the field of much less distinguished ability could run between 1.41xx-1.43xx in a championship final. It pretty much told me that anti-doping is still only mere window-dressing in the sport.

That’s 5 women in one distance race with no rabbit going under the previous world record.

I don’t think any drug can do that.

I think it was about 100m short.

A WR at the Olympics guarantees an OR, at least one NR, and at least PB. Mentioning the OR seems silly.

elikint wrote:

One world record, one olympic record, three national records, one world junior record, seven personal bests in an OLYMPIC FINAL with no rabbit, of course.

You do realize that 3 of those 6 Chinese times were from a semifinal heat the day before. So perhaps two outlier races, but strangely on the same track at the same meet.

Certainly not as good as that 800, but the Rio 10000 was shocking to me.

I wasn't sure if Tirunesh Dibaba was too old or not ready after the maternity outage, but the fact she ran a PR seemed to rules those out, and then for her PR to only obtain bronze was astounding, I thought. And the unexpected WR was quite an opening for the games.

Star wrote:

That’s 5 women in one distance race with no rabbit going under the previous world record.

I don’t think any drug can do that.

I think it was about 100m short.

Industrial-strength EPO plus the cocktail of androgens & HGH could do the trick. Remember there was no EPO test nor ABP back then, so athletes could go full-throttle with the rocket fuel. ?

Armstronglivs wrote:

Every competitor in that final ran a pb, that included the wr by Rudisha. The last placegetter ran 1.43.77 - fast enough to win most finals. After Rudisha, most of the field ran 1.41.xx-1.42.xx. I don't think I have seen a less believable race.

No, they did not.

nupee wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Every competitor in that final ran a pb, that included the wr by Rudisha. The last placegetter ran 1.43.77 - fast enough to win most finals. After Rudisha, most of the field ran 1.41.xx-1.42.xx. I don't think I have seen a less believable race.

No, they did not.

Who didn't, and what was their best?

Armstronglivs wrote:

nupee wrote:

No, they did not.

Who didn't, and what was their best?

Abubaker Kaki Khamis was the only one. He ran 1:43.32 and his PB from 2 yrs earlier was 1:42.23 (Oslo).

I recall the commentators after the race reeling off that most of the competitors recorded a pb.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Every competitor in that final ran a pb

Armstronglivs wrote:

I recall the commentators after the race reeling off that most of the competitors recorded a pb.

...

777888999 wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Every competitor in that final ran a pb

Armstronglivs wrote:

I recall the commentators after the race reeling off that most of the competitors recorded a pb.

...

People are sooo niice and heelpful

Armstronglivs wrote:

It was as though the earlier rounds didn't exist. Juiced or not, Rudisha is an incredible talent, but I am highly sceptical that the rest of the field of much less distinguished ability could run between 1.41xx-1.43xx in a championship final. It pretty much told me that anti-doping is still only mere window-dressing in the sport.

I remember after watching it that Andrew Osagai's time of 1:43.77 left me open mouthed. Was he really faster than Ovett and the likes of McKean? Then again, it was his home Olympics and he did then finish 5th at the World Championships the following year in 1:44.3 Has had a lot of injuries throughout his career too.

I don't know if it's been mentioned but every athlete in the final ran the fastest ever for the position they finished in (ie. Osagai's 1:43.77 was the fastest ever 8th place in a final). So objectively, it was the 'fastest' ever 800m.

fassssss\a wrote:

777888999 wrote:

...

People are sooo niice and heelpful

So one of eight didn't record a career best but a season best. Clearly, changes everything. But don't let your pedantry get in the road of the bigger picture.