Sub 4:20 mile?

My initial impression is that you are a speed based athlete. Was your 17:07 XC, or on the road? I like your paces on the two runs you mentioned. How stressed or not were you on those runs? For reference, what was your rest on the 400's?

Sometimes a good workout for a guy with a bit of speed training for the mile with that goal might be running a workout like 6x200 at just under 30 seconds with 2 min rest then ripping a 600 at goal pace or even extending that in a future workout to 800.

Also, I would run an 800 or a 1200 DMR leg if available to you a week or two prior to a mile attempt. Looks like your are doing that with the 800. If you go sub 2 than you have a decent shot at it.

Thank you for posting! My 17:07 was a road race.

The 8 mile distance run was very easy for me, I only felt a little bit of stress in the last 800.

The 80 minute one was a bit more of a challenge. I did 11.54 miles, but I hit mile 9 and my pace slowed by roughly 10 sec.

I made a typo and that 8x800 was actually 8x400! There was a 90 sec, standing recovery, and I wasn't stressed on that until the last 3 reps.

The 6x200 + 600/800 workout you mentioned seems interesting, I'm going to try it.

I'm going to continue to do to the 800. The DMR is not a super common event where I'm from.

Thank you so much for your input, I appreciate it!

I ran a 4:37, 1600 two days ago, I felt horrible and was coughing up phlegm during the race. The top two geared up with 600 left and I couldn’t hang with them.

Any training I can do to get to down below 4:30?

Yesterday we did 5x800 with 3min rest

2:13 2:15 2:18 2:14 2:24

The first two reps were easy but i hit a wall on the third one and then again on the 5th one.

That 5x800 workout tells me you are in sub 4:30 shape. Just a waiting game. What were your splits?

I apologize, I just looked at my workout logs and the rest was 5min.

My splits were:

1:07

1:08

1:13

1:11

Well right on the cusp, get in the right race and give it a week or two. You might pop it off

runner dude larry wrote:

I apologize, I just looked at my workout logs and the rest was 5min.

My splits were:

1:07

1:08

1:13

1:11

two 1:11’s not 1:13

It seems to me like your speed is already excellent, but your endurance is very weak for someone trying to go under 4:20 . A 4:20 mile is worth roughly 9:15-9:20 for 3200 - you should at least be in the 9:30's.

I wouldn't increase your mileage too much since it's already pretty late into the season, but until the final 2 weeks you should be doing one 5k to Half-marathon pace workout a week, right now it looks like you're doing stuff either 3200 and faster or marathon pace and slower.

Some examples:

20 min tempo (slower than 10k pace, faster than half marathon. Should be around 5:45-6:00/mile for you)

5x1200 @ 5k pace (3 min rest)

5 x mile @ 10k pace (2 min rest)

tempoo wrote:

It seems to me like your speed is already excellent, but your endurance is very weak for someone trying to go under 4:20 . A 4:20 mile is worth roughly 9:15-9:20 for 3200 - you should at least be in the 9:30's.

I wouldn't increase your mileage too much since it's already pretty late into the season, but until the final 2 weeks you should be doing one 5k to Half-marathon pace workout a week, right now it looks like you're doing stuff either 3200 and faster or marathon pace and slower.

Some examples:

20 min tempo (slower than 10k pace, faster than half marathon. Should be around 5:45-6:00/mile for you)

5x1200 @ 5k pace (3 min rest)

5 x mile @ 10k pace (2 min rest)

I agree that your speed seems to be very good based on your 400m PR. Where you are lacking is in the endurance department. I'm not sure if getting under 4:20 this season is realistic or not given it is already mid-April. I do think getting under 4:30 is very doable and maybe even 4:25.

Good luck with the rest of your season.

If that 800 workout didn't completely destroy you, then you should be under 4:20 easily by now. That's a workout that somebody running well under 9:20 would do, even if you died on the last one.

Keep building your strength, talk to your coach about doing some longer reps at 3200/5k pace and lactate threshold workouts, you have plenty of speed to do it but you need to work on your aerobic system if you want to have a shot.

Thank you for replying!

I've only ran the 3200 once, I'm also on the 4x400 and they don't like running me back to back. Anyway, in that race, I stayed behind the guy and kicked with 2 laps to go, not knowing how to run the race.

I looked back at my training logs, you are right. I have not done one single workout in that pace range. My coach has us either doing 200s, 400s, or 800s, or going for longer runs.

Trying to get my coach to do lactate threshold training. He said "only a few guys on the team know their 5k and 10k paces".

How crucial is to 1600m success? How can I convince him to do this sort of training for the team?

I did a 20min tempo run today.

I attempted to go at 5:45-6:00 but ended up at 6:19.

I wish my coach was open to workouts.

Hi, very funny thread.

Seems that you are 200-400 m runner, I am not sure, how fast you run 200 m ?

You should be able to run 4 x 1000 m with 3 min of rest at 3:00/km or even 2:55.

Same to 5 k. Definitely relatively slow 5 k, I am sure that 10 k even slower, HM more slower.

You ran 1 mile in 4:37 and next day you do

@Yesterday we did 5x800 with 3min rest@

2:13 2:15 2:18 2:14 2:24

absolutely braindead coach.

The problem is mileage, low lactate threshold, speed based runner.

@I did a 20 min tempo run today.

I attempted to go at 5:45-6:00 but ended up at 6:19.@

You cannot even hold that slow pace ???

3:45 per kilometer ? That should be your Marathon pace

You do need a lot of recovery with your intensive thaining (slower 8 min/mile)

One time more.

That's easy to run 400-800m with enough of recovery for you with 51 sec 400m PB, but you cannot run

even 8 x 1000 m at 3:25-3:30 with 60-90 s.

Try to do 5 x 800 m with 90 s of recovery, for sure you die at second at 2:18-2:20

For my tempo run today, I selected a very hilly course (all the parks are flooded here). On the second half I had head wind with gusts of 17mph. It was also very chilly and I tend to not fair well in cold weather.

I’ve held 6:18 for a flat course for 8m before. I just didn’t have my best run.

My lactate threshold is clearly lacking though. I definetly need to improve this area, though.

runner dude larry wrote:

For my tempo run today, I selected a very hilly course (all the parks are flooded here). On the second half I had head wind with gusts of 17mph. It was also very chilly and I tend to not fair well in cold weather.

I’ve held 6:18 for a flat course for 8m before. I just didn’t have my best run.

My lactate threshold is clearly lacking though. I definetly need to improve this area, though.

That's completely fine, I put the pace more as a rough guideline, don't go too hard trying to hit the paces, you still want to be able to hit your speed work later in the week. Tempos shouldn't be comfortable but you should always feel like you could go a bit further.

I'd treat it as a good sign though - if you can already run in the 4:30s with a weak lactate threshold imagine how much you'll improve once that gets better!