Kipchoge - Doping, cheating, or a natural?

Please don't call others uneducated until your own $hit is watertight. At the very least, learn basic sentence structure and spelling. Being hypocritical is a disgusting trait.

Finally, EK won his Olympic gold wearing Vaporfly prototypes.

tarckstar wrote:

donyiyo wrote:

Tell that to the IAAF, once they rule they are not kosher and take away the world record from Kipchoge, then your opinion matters, as of now, it is as good as used toilet paper. Same goes for all the cry babies on the subject.

I just asked Bing "marathon world record."

https://www.bing.com/search?q=marathon+world+record&qs=n&form=QBLH&sp=-1&pq=marathon+world+record&sc=8-21&sk=&cvid=7CA8E46253D54A58992FD0CDFDC12051

Can we address the fact that this dude used bing? Are you serious? Its 2019. No one uses Bing. You are in the dark ages.

If he wore the 4% prototype at the Olympics I stand corrected on that point. Although he didn't win because he had access to the shoes since if you take a look at pictures of the race the top 3 finishers were all wearing the exact same shoes. I read he only raced in them in London 2016 before the sub 2 attempt. But my point still stands that it wasn't the shoes.

Now you have to be wearing shoes defined as reasonably available so you can't race in prototypes. But he won several majors before the 2016 London debut of the prototypes.

Eliud ran 2:04 FLAT in shoes that were falling apart in Berlin, back in 2015. He is no cheat, he trains well, rests, then competes. What we are witnessing now is the culmination of years of healthy training and racing.

East Africans are superior runners.

Yg11110 wrote:

East Africans are superior runners.

You mean superior dopers?...Kiprop, Bett, Yego, Jeptoo, Jebet, Jepchumba, etc, etc, etc...?

Barrel of Laughs wrote:

Yg11110 wrote:

East Africans are superior runners.

You mean superior dopers?...Kiprop, Bett, Yego, Jeptoo, Jebet, Jepchumba, etc, etc, etc...?

Now the list of East African non-dopers, please. ;-)

Kipchoge's consistency and fast times is what I can't comprehend.

In a race of pure attrition, his body has never let him down over 26 miles. No other marathon runner past or present comes even close to that consistency.

Even Lance Armstrong had a handful of bad days at the TdF.

YUGO wrote:

Barrel of Laughs wrote:

You mean superior dopers?...Kiprop, Bett, Yego, Jeptoo, Jebet, Jepchumba, etc, etc, etc...?

Now the list of East African non-dopers, please. ;-)

? ??

YUGO wrote:

Now the list of East African non-dopers, please. ;-)

It gets shorter by the week.

You have to admit that during the last year (when testing standards in Kenya were raised just a notch), more stars were getting popped than were being born.

+1

Yeah... The experts' opinions that blood doping alone can help up to 3%, or 30 s over 5000 and 1 minute over 10000 m were also discussed here repeatedly (e.g., Ashenden/Parisotto/Schumacher, who all have actually seen the correlation between blood values and performance).

Kipchoge is as clean as Bolt or Bekele or Radcliffe or M. Johnson or FloJo.

Here cited verbatim from Malm et al., in a peer-reviewed review from 2016:

As if Kipchoge could have run a 1:57...

Some here are either (too obviously) trolling or PR shills.

Barrel of Laughs wrote:

Yg11110 wrote:

East Africans are superior runners.

You mean superior dopers?...Kiprop, Bett, Yego, Jeptoo, Jebet, Jepchumba, etc, etc, etc...?

East Africans are superior runners. That is the natural and historic truth, the universal truth and the way it should be as well as the way it is. Fabrication, formation and building of an alternative truth is inferior and futile...a compounding inferiority..."Western" civilization.

Coevett wrote:

YUGO wrote:

Now the list of East African non-dopers, please. ;-)

It gets shorter by the week.

You have to admit that during the last year (when testing standards in Kenya were raised just a notch), more stars were getting popped than were being born.

No. They didn’t even crack 1% of Kenyan stars. Unlike if Farah or Muir got popped, that would be 50% of British elites right there.

As a former D1 collegiate swimmer this logic is idiotic at best. The 4% will never be banned like the wetsuits in swimming were. Running shoe brands are increasingly going towards the trend of less weight, more cushion. They’re using the same materials that have been around in the sport for decades.

Swim brands, such as Italian brand Jaked, made a 100% polyurethane swimsuit that actually aided swimmers buoyancy (ability to float without effort). Professional swimmers were thus able to focus less on technique and more on raw power in training.

Take 2009 swimming world champs for instance. Michael Phelps - who swam for Speedo and was given the green light to wear another brand by Speedo (but refused) was the 2008 Olympic champion in 200 freestyle. He set a WR. His swimsuit was about 40% polyurethane. Which at the time was normal.

Paul Biedermann of Germany raced and beat Phelps in 200 free and set a WR in 2009 world champs. Biedermann’s performance came out of nowhere. After all... Biedermann finished a distant 5th just one year prior.

Phelps and coach Bob Bowman had been arguing for months leading up to 2019 world champs that the 100% polyurethane swimsuits needed to be banned because WR’s were being diluted (in every event).

Fast forward a few months later. They’re banned in all sanctioned meets by International Swimming Federation. Biedermann never ever came close to that performance again.

How it relates to running.

A) we’re talking 2 events specifically (1/2 and full marathon). Swimming it was every event.

B) I don’t see many professional runners calling for a ban. In fact I see a few non-Nike athletes wearing the shoes and blacking out the branding.

C) MP is widely regarded as the best swimmer, ever. Kipchoge is widely regarded as best marathoner. If you take away Kipchoges VF4% he’s still going to be 2018 Berlin champion. Will he win by 5 min? Maybe not... but 2nd and 3rd had the same shoes on. MP didn’t wear the 100% polyurethane swimsuit and was beat. And lost his WR. A WR in 200fr that still stands today- 10 yrs later. Kipchoge is not getting beat if he wore say Pegasus 35 and everyone else was wearing VF4%.

Bottom line this is the direction marathon running is going in. Lighter shoes with more cushioning. I’m far from an elite runner but I can attest that I am running the same 6:30 miles in a marathon wearing my Nike VF’s as my Saucony Type A’s. Only difference being how I feel the next day and how my body recovers.

Only ones calling it cheating are users on LR. You think Banister was calling mesh shoes cheating after he broke 4 min mile in leather shoes? No he understood that times have changed.

El Keniano wrote:

Coevett wrote:

It gets shorter by the week.

You have to admit that during the last year (when testing standards in Kenya were raised just a notch), more stars were getting popped than were being born.

No. They didn’t even crack 1% of Kenyan stars. Unlike if Farah or Muir got popped, that would be 50% of British elites right there.

Are you living in a cave these days or what? They've been bagging Kenyan stars like crazy lately! How about the latest one that was announced a couple of months ago: Sarah Chepchirchir - another marathoner caught for doping (ABP violation). She's big time & prime time with some serious speed: 26th fastest marathon ever and 10th fastest Kenyan woman! And since marathoning is one of kenyan's strong suits for females that's saying something. She also won the 2017 Tokyo marathon.

And don't get too complacent there Mr. El K: "Currently, Kenya, Ethiopia, Belarus and Ukraine constitute the current watchlist of Category 'A', which includes the members most at risk of doping."

Coevett wrote:

YUGO wrote:

Now the list of East African non-dopers, please. ;-)

It gets shorter by the week.

You have to admit that during the last year (when testing standards in Kenya were raised just a notch), more stars were getting popped than were being born.

He is right (YUGO) and you are wrong.

Nothing to see here.

Ctrl+Alt+Del wrote:

Coevett wrote:

It gets shorter by the week.

You have to admit that during the last year (when testing standards in Kenya were raised just a notch), more stars were getting popped than were being born.

He is right (YUGO) and you are wrong.

Nothing to see here.

No such thing. All you have is a list of athletes that haven’t been caught yet.

Let's Tell It Like It Is wrote:

Are you living in a cave these days or what? They've been bagging Kenyan stars like crazy lately! How about the latest one that was announced a couple of months ago: Sarah Chepchirchir - another marathoner caught for doping (ABP violation). She's big time & prime time with some serious speed: 26th fastest marathon ever and 10th fastest Kenyan woman! And since marathoning is one of kenyan's strong suits for females that's saying something. She also won the 2017 Tokyo marathon.

And don't get too complacent there Mr. El K: "Currently, Kenya, Ethiopia, Belarus and Ukraine constitute the current watchlist of Category 'A', which includes the members most at risk of doping.”

Sarah Chepchirchir, Jemima Sumgong’s sister-in-law, was and still is, a relative no-name in Kenya despite winning that major. She never represented the country at championship level and her case had been known and pending for about year until the announcement. Now Kiprop, Sumgong and Jeptoo ... those were big. My prediction of a decline in doping busts still stands. They peaked a couple of years ago. The AIU, which spends a quarter of its resources on just Kenya alone, has been sounding off positively on Kenya’s progress in this area and A-B level Kenyans are now tested more than their Western counterparts who, apparently, never dope because zero have been caught LOL.

the italian job wrote:

Ctrl+Alt+Del wrote:

He is right (YUGO) and you are wrong.

Nothing to see here.

No such thing. All you have is a list of athletes that haven’t been caught yet.

Which is literally the case for Western athletes. None have been caught because no one is trying to catch them.