Kipchoge - Doping, cheating, or a natural?

I wear Vaporfly 4%s, and I don't consider myself a cheater.

Rather, I think you are dumb if you aren't taking advantage of technological innovations to gain an advantage legally.

If you are so against Vaporfly, then why the fk are you wearing shoes with soles even, why not run barefoot?

QED, mufka

Most likely equal to Paula

Dennis Kimmetto is the world record holder. The 4% shoes are exactly like the wetsuits used briefly by fast swimmers, then outlawed.

I think it's all natural, and probably one of the better all-natural setups out there. He's training in an ideal location, with an ideal number of high-caliber training partners, has ideal support and coaching. Simplicity is the key to all aspects of life, and he's figured it out -- hard, consistent training. For those who think he can improve with a more complicated setup, I think you're wrong. He's got it all.

I think the Vaporflys are probably a big reason for his recent success, but you have to remember this guy has been training and racing at an extremely high caliber for a number of years now. The technology hasn't improved his situation in any way, but it is capitalizing on his already-high potential for performance by being the perfect shoe.

I do not think anyone could have come close to the new marathon WR without the shoe. But I don't think just anyone wearing the shoe could have done it, especially Kimetto. Kipchoge is a once-in-a-lifetime talent, and it takes a once-in-a-lifetime body to make the Vaporfly really sing.

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Very Curious wrote:

Before you select one, let me explain what I believe.

I think the 4%s are the main reason for his success, thus cheating, but I definitely don't think he's doping. He lacks some of the key signs that are mentioned constantly on this board. #1: He does not display an inexplicable lack of exhaustion postrace. He almost always hugs his coach or someone else, supporting himself, prior to falling to the ground. #2: He is anything but lacking in consistency. He has been consistently running under 2:05 (excluding Rio) and methodically destroyed every field he's raced against.

If you think he's doping: please explain your reasoning and what kind of PED he might be taking.

If you think he's cheating: Is it just the 4%s? Without these, would he still be the marathon GOAT?

If you think it's all natural: Do you disagree with the idea that the 4%s have carried him significantly? How would he have fared against a WR-racing Kimetto without these? What parts of his training do you attribute his success to?

tl;dr
I don't think he's doping, but the cheaterflys are probably a big reason for his success. What do you think it is? Why?

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If you think that the 4%’s are the sole reason for Eliud’s success then you are mistaken and quite frankly ignorant of all that he has accomplished.

Kipchoge had already established himself as the best marathoner in the world before the 4% came out. After an impressive Chicago win in ‘14 he proceeded to best both Kipsang and Kimetto in London ‘15. He proceeded to run 2:04:00 in Berlin that year, with his insoles flapping for 10 or 15 miles or more. This already established him as the best marathoner in the world in that year. But his stellar performance in London ‘16 established him as a GOAT contender; 2:03:05 while loosing time at the end racing Biwott. I think this performance already equaled if not slightly exceeded Kimetto’s WR.

So Kipchoge had won 4 Major titles in a row and ran what was at that time the 2nd fastest performance ever (3rd if you count Mutai at Boston), all before ever racing in the vaporfly. I think his easy Olympic Gold was also accomplished prior to the 4% release but I’m not certain.

Anyways, you can argue a bit about how much Kipchoge’s 2:01:39 dominance was aided by the shoes, but he is without a doubt the greatest male marathoner of all time, vaporfly or not.

I think it’s too early to judge that; but certainly more runners have access to the 4% than Kipchoge alone, and as of yet we have no other sub 2:03s. If we see scores of 2:02s in the next few years then there will be some credence to the notion that some of Eliud’s improvement on the record is due to technology.

I’m going to have to say he’s all three.

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Potential Automorphy wrote:
Anyways, you can argue a bit about how much Kipchoge’s 2:01:39 dominance was aided by the shoes, but he is without a doubt the greatest male marathoner of all time, vaporfly or not.

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full natty brah

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tarckstar wrote:

Dennis Kimmetto is the world record holder. The 4% shoes are exactly like the wetsuits used briefly by fast swimmers, then outlawed.

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So he came from nowhere to beat Bekele and El Guerrouj in a championship race in 12:52. He ran 12:46, a time that reeks of 'epo era' and then there is his 2:01, a time that is soooooo juiced it isn't even funny. The fact he lives in Kenya, trains in an extremely remote location, went backwards after the ABP was introduced, though unlikely to have much if any occ testing, and switched to the marathon says it all. He is though unlikely to be solely reliant on epo, though going by his training suggests that he is either taking synthetic testosterone or a recovery pain killing drug. People are morons to think that he has never touched drugs.

He was world 5000 meter champion at 18.

Better check his spikes from that race!

I don't think he's doping, and other runners wear Vaporflies too.

But I don't like seeing him instruct the pacers so he can draft from them. Pacing is unsportsmanlike and provides an unfair advantage. A champion like him shouldn't need aids. Pacing should be banned.

Other than that, he's legit IMO.

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Subway Surfers wrote:

So he came from nowhere to beat Bekele and El Guerrouj in a championship race in 12:52. He ran 12:46, a time that reeks of 'epo era' and then there is his 2:01, a time that is soooooo juiced it isn't even funny. The fact he lives in Kenya, trains in an extremely remote location, went backwards after the ABP was introduced, though unlikely to have much if any occ testing, and switched to the marathon says it all. He is though unlikely to be solely reliant on epo, though going by his training suggests that he is either taking synthetic testosterone or a recovery pain killing drug. People are morons to think that he has never touched drugs.

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The biggest part of his WR was without pacers.

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Subway Surfers wrote:

So he came from nowhere to beat Bekele and El Guerrouj in a championship race in 12:52. He ran 12:46, a time that reeks of 'epo era' and then there is his 2:01, a time that is soooooo juiced it isn't even funny. The fact he lives in Kenya, trains in an extremely remote location, went backwards after the ABP was introduced, though unlikely to have much if any occ testing, and switched to the marathon says it all. He is though unlikely to be solely reliant on epo, though going by his training suggests that he is either taking synthetic testosterone or a recovery pain killing drug. People are morons to think that he has never touched drugs.

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donyiyo wrote:

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tarckstar wrote:

Dennis Kimmetto is the world record holder. The 4% shoes are exactly like the wetsuits used briefly by fast swimmers, then outlawed.

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Tell that to the IAAF, once they rule they are not kosher and take away the world record from Kipchoge, then your opinion matters, as of now, it is as good as used toilet paper. Same goes for all the cry babies on the subject.

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Greg wrote:

He was world 5000 meter champion at 18.

Better check his spikes from that race!

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Subway Surfers wrote:

So he came from nowhere to beat Bekele and El Guerrouj in a championship race in 12:52. He ran 12:46, a time that reeks of 'epo era' and then there is his 2:01, a time that is soooooo juiced it isn't even funny. The fact he lives in Kenya, trains in an extremely remote location, went backwards after the ABP was introduced, though unlikely to have much if any occ testing, and switched to the marathon says it all. He is though unlikely to be solely reliant on epo, though going by his training suggests that he is either taking synthetic testosterone or a recovery pain killing drug. People are morons to think that he has never touched drugs.

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