Kipchoge - Doping, cheating, or a natural?

I wear Vaporfly 4%s, and I don't consider myself a cheater.

Rather, I think you are dumb if you aren't taking advantage of technological innovations to gain an advantage legally.

If you are so against Vaporfly, then why the fk are you wearing shoes with soles even, why not run barefoot?

QED, mufka

Most likely equal to Paula

Dennis Kimmetto is the world record holder. The 4% shoes are exactly like the wetsuits used briefly by fast swimmers, then outlawed.

I think it's all natural, and probably one of the better all-natural setups out there. He's training in an ideal location, with an ideal number of high-caliber training partners, has ideal support and coaching. Simplicity is the key to all aspects of life, and he's figured it out -- hard, consistent training. For those who think he can improve with a more complicated setup, I think you're wrong. He's got it all.

I think the Vaporflys are probably a big reason for his recent success, but you have to remember this guy has been training and racing at an extremely high caliber for a number of years now. The technology hasn't improved his situation in any way, but it is capitalizing on his already-high potential for performance by being the perfect shoe.

I do not think anyone could have come close to the new marathon WR without the shoe. But I don't think just anyone wearing the shoe could have done it, especially Kimetto. Kipchoge is a once-in-a-lifetime talent, and it takes a once-in-a-lifetime body to make the Vaporfly really sing.

Kipchoge is the result of consistent sustainable elite training over 20ish years. Lack of injuries, extreme efforts, and hard sessions results in what kipchoge's aerobic engine has become. Consistency is key in the marathon. You cannot say the vapor fly is the main cause for his success because he was crushing it before 2016 when they were introduced. You are also more than welcome to use the vaporfly yourself. If you have a problem with them, then stop training in shoes. Run barefoot. Because running in something that offers spring and protection is considered cheating. So you training in your brooks, saucony, or whatever you run in is an advantage to those without shoes. Cheater.

If you think that the 4%’s are the sole reason for Eliud’s success then you are mistaken and quite frankly ignorant of all that he has accomplished.

Kipchoge had already established himself as the best marathoner in the world before the 4% came out. After an impressive Chicago win in ‘14 he proceeded to best both Kipsang and Kimetto in London ‘15. He proceeded to run 2:04:00 in Berlin that year, with his insoles flapping for 10 or 15 miles or more. This already established him as the best marathoner in the world in that year. But his stellar performance in London ‘16 established him as a GOAT contender; 2:03:05 while loosing time at the end racing Biwott. I think this performance already equaled if not slightly exceeded Kimetto’s WR.

So Kipchoge had won 4 Major titles in a row and ran what was at that time the 2nd fastest performance ever (3rd if you count Mutai at Boston), all before ever racing in the vaporfly. I think his easy Olympic Gold was also accomplished prior to the 4% release but I’m not certain.

Anyways, you can argue a bit about how much Kipchoge’s 2:01:39 dominance was aided by the shoes, but he is without a doubt the greatest male marathoner of all time, vaporfly or not.

I think it’s too early to judge that; but certainly more runners have access to the 4% than Kipchoge alone, and as of yet we have no other sub 2:03s. If we see scores of 2:02s in the next few years then there will be some credence to the notion that some of Eliud’s improvement on the record is due to technology.

I’m going to have to say he’s all three.

Potential Automorphy wrote:

Anyways, you can argue a bit about how much Kipchoge’s 2:01:39 dominance was aided by the shoes, but he is without a doubt the greatest male marathoner of all time, vaporfly or not.

I probably should've been more clear, this was what I was commenting on with the 4%. I was speaking more so about his world record in comparison to Kimetto's, rather than general racing. I know he's had a fantastic pedigree even before racing with the VF, but was wondering how much they actually assisted him in that record-breaking race.

full natty brah

tarckstar wrote:

Dennis Kimmetto is the world record holder. The 4% shoes are exactly like the wetsuits used briefly by fast swimmers, then outlawed.

Tell that to the IAAF, once they rule they are not kosher and take away the world record from Kipchoge, then your opinion matters, as of now, it is as good as used toilet paper. Same goes for all the cry babies on the subject.

So he came from nowhere to beat Bekele and El Guerrouj in a championship race in 12:52. He ran 12:46, a time that reeks of 'epo era' and then there is his 2:01, a time that is soooooo juiced it isn't even funny. The fact he lives in Kenya, trains in an extremely remote location, went backwards after the ABP was introduced, though unlikely to have much if any occ testing, and switched to the marathon says it all. He is though unlikely to be solely reliant on epo, though going by his training suggests that he is either taking synthetic testosterone or a recovery pain killing drug. People are morons to think that he has never touched drugs.

He was world 5000 meter champion at 18.

Better check his spikes from that race!

I don't think he's doping, and other runners wear Vaporflies too.

But I don't like seeing him instruct the pacers so he can draft from them. Pacing is unsportsmanlike and provides an unfair advantage. A champion like him shouldn't need aids. Pacing should be banned.

Other than that, he's legit IMO.

Subway Surfers wrote:

So he came from nowhere to beat Bekele and El Guerrouj in a championship race in 12:52. He ran 12:46, a time that reeks of 'epo era' and then there is his 2:01, a time that is soooooo juiced it isn't even funny. The fact he lives in Kenya, trains in an extremely remote location, went backwards after the ABP was introduced, though unlikely to have much if any occ testing, and switched to the marathon says it all. He is though unlikely to be solely reliant on epo, though going by his training suggests that he is either taking synthetic testosterone or a recovery pain killing drug. People are morons to think that he has never touched drugs.

+1

+ blood transfusions + HGH + speed peptide.

Compare to Bolt, Michael Johnson, Radcliffe, Flo, Bekele and El G.

The biggest part of his WR was without pacers.

Subway Surfers wrote:

So he came from nowhere to beat Bekele and El Guerrouj in a championship race in 12:52. He ran 12:46, a time that reeks of 'epo era' and then there is his 2:01, a time that is soooooo juiced it isn't even funny. The fact he lives in Kenya, trains in an extremely remote location, went backwards after the ABP was introduced, though unlikely to have much if any occ testing, and switched to the marathon says it all. He is though unlikely to be solely reliant on epo, though going by his training suggests that he is either taking synthetic testosterone or a recovery pain killing drug. People are morons to think that he has never touched drugs.

Can you please provide evidence to any of your accusations/insinuations?

Thank you.

donyiyo wrote:

tarckstar wrote:

Dennis Kimmetto is the world record holder. The 4% shoes are exactly like the wetsuits used briefly by fast swimmers, then outlawed.

Tell that to the IAAF, once they rule they are not kosher and take away the world record from Kipchoge, then your opinion matters, as of now, it is as good as used toilet paper. Same goes for all the cry babies on the subject.

I just asked Bing "marathon world record."

Greg wrote:

He was world 5000 meter champion at 18.

Better check his spikes from that race!

Kipchoge wore the Vaporfly 4% (or vapourfly 4% ha ha ha ha!) in 2003 when he became the world champion.

Subway Surfers wrote:

So he came from nowhere to beat Bekele and El Guerrouj in a championship race in 12:52. He ran 12:46, a time that reeks of 'epo era' and then there is his 2:01, a time that is soooooo juiced it isn't even funny. The fact he lives in Kenya, trains in an extremely remote location, went backwards after the ABP was introduced, though unlikely to have much if any occ testing, and switched to the marathon says it all. He is though unlikely to be solely reliant on epo, though going by his training suggests that he is either taking synthetic testosterone or a recovery pain killing drug. People are morons to think that he has never touched drugs.

Anyone who has followed the sport long enough knows it. The casual fans don't really get it, they are still like talking to Lance fans back in the day. At some point the truth will become unavoidable and they will just switch to the everyone was doing it justification.

That said he is undoubtedly massively talented on top of it.