Kipchoge - Doping, cheating, or a natural?

Ctrl+Alt+Del wrote:

Dear sir, I appreciate your post which is full of relevant data.

But still, there is no evidence that Mr. Kipchoge has used any performance enhancing drugs during his career.

Therefore, the post by message board user "Subway Surfers" is nothing but a pile of manure. Your insinuations/accusations seem to be headed the same way even if I understand your bias in the face of recent doping bans.

I respect your doubts. After all, there have been some high-profile doping busts in the past 10 years (more so in 2017/18).

But in this case there is nothing on Kipchoge.

Rampant doping exists with Kenyan marathoners...you must be living in a cave or something to not be aware of this. Here's a "little list" of some Kenyan marathoners popped for doping:

Rutto (EPO)

Kisorio (Norandrostrone)

Erupe (EPO)

Kalaei (EPO)

Edwin Kipyego (EPO)

Yego (Norandrostrone)

Peter Kiptoo (Clenbuterol)

Jeptoo (EPO)

Sumgong (EPO)

Marita (EPO)

Kabuu (Morphine)

Muraga (EPO)

Miano (EPO)

Chepchirchir (ABP violation - pending)

This:

So since tech used in all events in water far surpasses what the wet suits did a decade ago (increased oxygen in the pools for example) does that mean if they change asphalt to be more like a mondo track its okay?

Or is there another hole you'd like to climb into?

Started this thread last year, but it didn’t get much traction:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=9232159&thread=9057257#9232159

The thread title is “Kipchoge's agent, Jos Hermens, is okay with genetic augmentation/doping. Why does no one care?”

One of the most talented and hard working of all time. Aided by technological advancement.

But...

No one has run sub 2:03 but him. All of Nike’s athletes have those shoes. No one is close. Heck... American runners can’t even break 2:10.

If Lelisa Desisa and G Kirui run 2:02, then maybe these are magic shoes. But even Mo Farah and Geln Rupp haven’t broken 2:05 in them (even on a course like Chicago’s). And if you wanna question doping, start with those not Kipchoge.

It's ridiculous that anybody born in the U.S. would respond here. Eluid Kipchoge as an athlete and Kenya as a nation are just too far ahead of the United States in distance running. We has a running nation just do not have the expertise to offer a credible opinion. It's like the Finnish National basketball team critiquing the NBA!

olyrun wrote:

It's ridiculous that anybody born in the U.S. would respond here. Eluid Kipchoge as an athlete and Kenya as a nation are just too far ahead of the United States in distance running. We has a running nation just do not have the expertise to offer a credible opinion. It's like the Finnish National basketball team critiquing the NBA!

I guess the same could be said of all Western nations when it came to the question as to whether the GDR was doping its female athletes during the 70's and 80's.

Burnsy wrote:

The thread title is “Kipchoge's agent, Jos Hermens, is okay with genetic augmentation/doping. Why does no one care?”

One of Herman's close associates also published a paper calling for EPO to be made legal. And let's not forget the cloudy circumstances of Bekele's jailbait bride dropping dead from unknown causes while out on a run with him (Bekele).

olyrun wrote:

It's ridiculous that anybody born in the U.S. would respond here. Eluid Kipchoge as an athlete and Kenya as a nation are just too far ahead of the United States in distance running. We has a running nation just do not have the expertise to offer a credible opinion. It's like the Finnish National basketball team critiquing the NBA!

0/10 ?

What is the 2nd best time wearing 4% behind Kipchoge?

Wether or not he's doping he's running faster off his superior track times to his competitor's

Of course he dopes. You are either naive or an idiot if you think any top athlete does not dope. I vote that we just forget about trying to suppress doping and get back to the glory days of the 90's.

Just reading #1 in your post shows you haven't watched many of his races. If anything he struts around a bit too full of energy.

He's a talented athlete who's also doped to his eyeballs. There's a lot of politics behind letting E. Africans and other third world athletes cheat. He's got an extra level of protection now because the powers that be are playing the old "we don't want to completely destroy the sport" game. Like when they let Ngeny off in Sydney, among many other incidents.

People can't get it though their brainwashed, NPC minds that it's the allowance of doping that's behind this. That the push to allow certain people to dope is from outside the sport. The same forces are at work in other sports as well. One day you may be able to free your mind. Then you'll stop the knee-jerk thinking and reactions against posts like this, stop spouting the answers you've been taught to fire off. You'll actually take a look around, investigate, and see that the sport is joke. The shoes are a distraction. Wake up son.

Shanneg wrote:

One of the most talented and hard working of all time. Aided by technological advancement.

But...

No one has run sub 2:03 but him. All of Nike’s athletes have those shoes. No one is close. Heck... American runners can’t even break 2:10.

If Lelisa Desisa and G Kirui run 2:02, then maybe these are magic shoes. But even Mo Farah and Geln Rupp haven’t broken 2:05 in them (even on a course like Chicago’s). And if you wanna question doping, start with those not Kipchoge.

Completely disingenuous. Kipchoge is the best responder among the marathoners at the moment. Since he's in a position where they're going to let him dope like the guy notes above, then he can also use higher doses of EPO and whatever as well. He's in the right spot at the right time for him. For now.

To address your first point, did you watch the end of his WR? He finished, hugs his coach, and almost immediately drops to the ground. Secondly, you must not have read the rest of my post, I asked that if you thought he was doping, you explained why and what he might be using. All you did was attempt to insult me in an ad hominem matter without actually answering my question. You attempted to explain why you thought he'd be able to dope, but not why you thought he was ACTUALLY doping and what he was using. I explicitly asked for the second part of that to learn more about the different PEDs and the effects they may cause him to exhibit. If you can answer why you think he's doping, not just why you think he's able to, I'd be happy to listen.

This post is so uneducated I dont know where to start. The 4% shoes being the key to his success is laughable. You realize he was an Olympic champ(3 total medals), world track champ, multiple major winner and undisputed best marathoner in the world before he wore vaporflys. Maybe they made the last minute difference between 2:01:30 and a 2:02 but he is the best in the world with or without the super shoes.

As far as doping anyone who thinks the consistancy and being tired at the end or races is evidence of not doping is clueless. Those are outdated assumptions about dopers. They may indicate doping in someone on a crappy doping program but the absence of them is in no way an indication of being clean. Lance was very consistent winning his 7 tours. Doping done right does not lead to wild inconsistency.

Let me put my thoughts this way. In a sport full of cheaters, if you think the guy who is a minute and a half faster than the next best guy in the world, who is very likely doping, while they both come from a country with minimal doping controls is clean I have some ocean front property for sale in Arizona that has your name on it.

Please see later comment of mine where I admitted my mistake and mentioned that I had actually meant the WR, in regards to the shoes. Secondly, before stating my explanation about the doping I said "He lacks some of the key signs that are mentioned constantly on this board. " Which I thought would explain that these aren't necessarily indicators I look at, but ones that people here seem to. Finally, please explain what effects of doping he does exhibit, besides being fast. I'm happy to listen and learn, but I'd like facts.

Thank you,

OP.

tarckstar wrote:

The 4% shoes are exactly like the wetsuits used briefly by fast swimmers, then outlawed.

Because 4% shoes help you to slip through air with no resistance, exactly like the wetsuits that are used in cold water.

You once called me a coward because I didn't use my registered handle. And now you do the same.

Well, you have been doing it for some months.

Honestly Coevett, I would love to talk about athletics, and the horrible doping problem, with you, but you are always aggressive, insulting people, threatening them (and me).

I hate doping as much as you do and you are passionate about it, which is great! Can you please stop calling me and others hasbarat whatevers and changing handles and just talk about the subject without insulting me/others?

You may not believe this but I am as much against dopers as you are. Only I don't care about their skin color.

4%s. Are. Legal.