Craig Virgin on Caster Semenya

Don't engage this looney. He's some Canadian guy that hates PC culture but also thinks that white Canadians have discriminated against him. Thankfully he doesn't post here as much anymore.

who will be appointed the :

I KNOW ONE WHEN I SEEN ONE

judge ?

What are the chances the men running IAAF would appoint a woman to be the judge?

I feel sorry for real women competing against these something elses.

Just curious as to how female swimmers are relatively closer to elite male times in all events, even with T levels within normal female ranges, below 2.0, and in some super distance swims, Channel crossings, many females are competitive with the top elite males. Body fat advantage in females, compensating for lower T levels ?

Ghost in China

Craig sums up LRers wrote:

Sounds like the typical poster here. Lets ban all Russians and black Africans on any pretext we can think of so darling babes Bishop and Buchel can stand on the podium whilst LR posters ogle at them.

I agree with this generally, except ban ALL men and DSD people from competing in women's events, not just those from particular countries or ethnicities.

Ghost1 wrote:

Just curious as to how female swimmers are relatively closer to elite male times in all events, even with T levels within normal female ranges, below 2.0, and in some super distance swims, Channel crossings, many females are competitive with the top elite males. Body fat advantage in females, compensating for lower T levels ?

Ghost in China

That and woman are shaped for more efficient movement through water. Like Dolphins.

ESSAY TWO

It is rather interesting as to the fact that it was an Indian sprinter's case that actually led to the rule being changed:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/sports/international/dutee-chand-female-sprinter-with-high-male-hormone-level-wins-right-to-compete.html?_r=0

In the case of Dutee Chand, nobody is worked up about it, because she did not (and had no chance to) take a medal away from anyone. She did indeed qualify for the Olympic Games in the 100m by running under the standard of 11.30 (her PB is 11.24). But in the opening heat of the 100m at the Games, she ran a disappointing 11.69. When interviewed she said she had a 36 hour flight from India to Brazil and this combined with the grand stage of the Games made her nervous and resulted in a poor performance.

People cheered for her when she qualified (as did I) because it was the first time since 1984 that a woman from India qualified for the Olympic Games in a track event. Yes this is true.

Also Dutee Chand's case of hyperandrogenism is in the category of AIS (Androgen insensitivity syndrome). AIS people have a mutation which prevents testosterone (T) from being absorbed by the body; hence there will be plenty of T in the blood, but virtually none in other cells. Those with AIS usually look like any other woman from the outside. Since there is no T uptake in the body, there is no athletic advantage from the excess T in their blood.

Now lets discuss the official statement released to the press by the Court of Arbitration for Sport :

http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Media_Release_3759_FINAL.pdf

They state:

"In the absence of such evidence, the CAS Panel was unable to conclude that hyperandrogenic female athletes may benefit from such a significant performance advantage".

Well, in my humble opinion, this was a classic case of the Court of Arbitration for Sport 'kicking the can down the road'. They basically are saying 'look we don't know' so lets re-visit this in two years. Or more likely 'we don't want to make a decision on this right now, because this is too controversial to tackle'.

C'mon really? You don't have any qualified Endocrinologist on your panel who can tell you that the OTHER type of Hyperandrogenism is Five alpha reductase deficiency (5-ARD)?

You don't know if higher levels of testosterone improve athletic performance in 5-ARD? Of course they do! What evidence are they requiring? Here is the evidence --> Semenya is runnning 1:55 without his testosterone lowering meds. When he was on them, he was running close to 2:00.

Why?

Because those born with 5-ARD have a mutation which prevents the creation of dihydrotestosterone, or DHT, in the body. DHT is a powerful androgen which triggers the formation of male genitalia. Thus, 5-ARD individuals (like Semenya, Niyonsaba and Wambui) are often assigned female gender. Unlike AIS people, however, those with 5-ARD ARE affected by the T in their system and become much more masculine at puberty. This can give them a very large athletic advantage over other women.

Caster Semenya chooses to compete, knowing that his higher levels of testosterone are giving him a clear advantage. He has refused to normalise his testosterone levels. That . . . is a clear case of the violation of fair play.

[quote]Sweeping? wrote:

Sex change surgery seems to becoming normal. You could have a bunch of NCAA D2 male to female sex change athletes ruin women swimming and athletics

Look. I understand that world class runners would do almost anything to win an Olympic Medal.

But mutilating yourself to become a woman is not one of them.

ESSAY THREE

Here are the excerpts I based my opinions on:

[1] This article:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/17/caster-semenya-comeback-rio-olympics-gold

states:

". . . the existing hyperandrogenism regulations law was suspended for two years – allowing any female athlete on testosterone‑suppressing medication to come off it."

[2] Here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2016/08/16/caster-semenya-competing-at-rio-olympics-2016-is-not-fair-on-any/

it is written:

"last summer, came the decision that looks to have changed all that when the Court of Arbitration for Sport scrapped regulations imposed by athletics’ governing body that required female athletes to take testosterone-lowering medication if their hormone levels were above a certain level.

Semenya’s coach insists that decision is not the reason for the South African’s subsequent improvement, but it is hard to believe him."

[3] Malcolm Gladwell says in this article:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/caster-semenya-and-the-logic-of-olympic-competition

"When Semenya’s testosterone was lowered to “normal” levels, she ran in the two-minute range for the eight hundred metres, which put her comfortably among the best in the world. Now that that restriction has been lifted, she is running six seconds faster. She has gone from being very good to being, potentially, the greatest half-miler in the history of women’s running. No one will beat her in Rio. She could run the last fifty yards backward and still win. How do you think the other women in that race feel about that?"

[4] and finally in this Toronto star article it states:

https://www.thestar.com/sports/olympics/2016/08/17/caster-semenya-keeps-silent-as-debate-rages-over-her-races-dimanno.html

"Semenya could compete, the IAAF concluded, but only if she — and any other female athlete with the condition — took medication that suppressed her testosterone levels. A benchmark was set, disallowing women to compete as women if their testosterone levels were roughly three times higher than testosterone naturally occurring in 99 per cent of female athletes.

Semenya is not known to have made any objection and presumably embarked on the corrective regimen. Her times fell off precipitously.”

ESSAY FOUR

Its hilarious how a group of white men on trackie.ca are acting all offended on behalf of a black woman.

Please! Give it a rest. Your political correctness is not only fake, but downright embarrassing.

If you are so interested in minorities, then recruit them into your all white distance running clubs. But you never will and OFSAA XC will remain 95 - 99% white.

Melissa Bishop was the first woman to cross the finish line in that Olympic 800m final. The bronze medallist Wambui looks more masculine that the winner of the Mens 800m.

Well in the end it cost Canada an Olympic medal! Lets see if Semenya sends you all a letter of thanks for supporting her on this forum.

Big thank you to 'LetsRun'. Finally we have a website where the truth and non-PC talk is allowed. Notice the quality and honesty of the posts here! Bravo.

What we need is more non-PC forums like this one, as it is our opinions that really matter on this subject. Not some PC SJW white men who all know each other and want to behave like they are the champions of black women rights. Whatever.

trackie.ca has been entirely taken over by paid politically correct posters (PPCP)? Is that website owned by Justin Trudeau?

The politically correct behaviour of these posters is exactly what will destroy the integrity of the sport of track and field.

Go ahead, keep celebrating the participation and success of Y Chromosome Hermaphrodites who have ten times the level of testosterone than real women. It is truly over for women sports.

It will destroy the sport . . . and eventually such PC people will destroy the nation of Canada. Just like they have destroyed Sweden:

https://youtu.be/RZsvdg1dkJ4

https://youtu.be/o_znVnOizU8

Too bad for the sport of track and field and too bad for Canada.

At least Shannon Rowbury has shown some wisdom:

https://youtu.be/qMQJeL302Qs

But wait . . . she is American.

Semenya has shown absolutely no class or morals whatsoever. Look at him showing off after his races, flexing his muscles and brushing off imaginary dust off his shoulders. Sticking out his tongue for the cameras etc.

Also, Semenya knows that he has ten times the level of testosterone than the average female. If Semenya had any morals, ethics or class, he would normalize his testosterone levels with medication or surgery . . . or quit the sport . . . or compete in the mens category. But Semenya won’t do any of these. Semenya has every right to compete if he normalizes his testosterone levels (either by ruling or by personal choice). Otherwise, Semenya does not belong in these womens races.

It is a travesty of justice, occurring in the name of bullshit political correctness.

How can Semenya even be proud of his Olympic medal? Is that really how African nations want to win Olympic medals? By finding Y chromosome hermaphrodites from rural villages and throwing them into the women races?

Semenya has no ovaries, no uterus, no breasts and no secondary sexual characteristics of a woman. Semenya married a woman. I don’t see how on earth Semenya fits the description of a woman and why on earth Semenya should be allowed to compete against normal women.

This truly is the end of women sports. In a few years if this trend continues, all world class competitions will be taken over by hermaphrodite athletes and regular woman will not stand a chance of winning, no matter how hard they train.

You have these PC white men on trackie.ca trying to raise their status and reputation in their AWMDRF (all white male distance runner fraternity). They are praising Semenya and saying that Semenya belongs in the same category as 'the greats'. It makes me want to vomit.

I think trying to raise your reputation by being super politically correct among the AWMDRF (all white male distance runner fraternity) is not only clearly disingenuous, but really just empty talk. Such talk is cheap.

Put your words into action and recruit some minority runners, or better yet, some intersex runners into your all white running clubs, then we will see if you really are truly supportive of such athletes. I have not seen this happen since I started running in Ontario three decades ago . . . and likely never will.

I personally think the only time the AWMDRF has any contact with a woman of colour is when they pour a bottle of Aunt Jemima maple syrup over their morning pancakes.

But alas, they just report your post to Adam Stacey and he conveniently deletes it and then sends an email stating ‘your post does not contribute to the forum’. What he really should say is ‘your post is not PC enough for our AWMDRF forum’. All this in Canada - a country that (supposedly) has freedom of speech in their bill of rights. Not anymore thanks to good ‘ol Justin Trudeau.

This guy gets it.

After reading Mr. Virgin's book 'Virgin Territory' all I can say is he is a tuff Mfr .

Enjoyed the book. They don't make em like that anymore.

Didn’t take you long to show your true (psychotic) self.

There are two main reasons why people have become so politically correct in Canada. That includes the all white male distance runner fraternity (AWMDRF) on this forum.

Reason [1]: The need to raise their status and reputation in their community.

We all know that there is a long history of racism in Canada (and the United States). Most of which was committed by white males. Therefore the white males of today, being aware of this shameful past, have (very rightly) decided to move away from the type of thinking and actions of their ancestors.

But, unfortunately what has happened, is that they have overshot. They have gone to the other extreme. That being a society of politically correct individuals that don't want to point out anything out of fear of a decline in status and reputation. They are so afraid of being labelled as a racist or a bigot or a xenophobe, that they either stay silent about issues or they go bases loaded home run PC.

I can say with confidence that most of you are not racists, or bigots or xenophobes. So why be afraid that someone may call you that? If you know in your heart that you are not, then you should have no apprehension to fully speak your mind on controversial topics.

Reason [2]: Fear of the new laws and repercussions.

Thanks to Justin Trudeau and several others before him, Canada has become a place similar to Western Europe. Where freedom of speech and expression has actually become against the law. Yes this is true.

Growing up in Canada, I was always taught that free speech is in the bill of rights. But now these PC politicians are tearing apart the fabric of the nation by introducing legislation that can imprison someone who simply voices an opinion.

For example Justin Trudope supports the hijab. That head scarf is a symbol of the 7th century islamic oppression of women. It has no place in a civilized society like Canada, in the 21st century. But (sigh) if you say this, you get in trouble. I highly doubt this man would ever force his wife or his daughter to put that on their heads. But he is ok for other men to do so.

He forces Canadians to simply bow their heads to people who come into the country and disrespect established laws, rules and freedoms and impose their backward 7th century customs on this advanced, educated and excellent society.

Now you have a case of a group of individuals, namely Y chromosome hermaphrodites, who have busted into the sport of track and field. They have clearly violated the rules of fair play, and have had the IAAF overturn established rules related to hyperandrogenism.

. . . and the reaction by the PC community? The same. Bow your head and let the integrity of the sport be torn to pieces. Keep up the same PC behaviour in Canada and you will have sharia law in Ontario within a few years.

Here are some Non-PC YouTube Channels I recommend (you may learn something):

Pat Condell (immigration and politics):

https://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell/videos

Tommy Sotomayor (race relations):

https://www.youtube.com/user/tnnraw2/videos

#NeverPC #NeverScared #NeverSemenya

Right here!... wrote:

This guy gets it.

If actual female athletes show up to compete against Semenya, they deserve to watch Mr. S strut around flexing and touching his sideburns in victory.

Boycott all races that include Semenya. It’s the only way to combat this problem.

Boy you’d think the two-time loser liberal politician wannabe would be all about ‘acceptance, inclusion and tolerance.’

NeverAWMDRF wrote:

At least Shannon Rowbury has shown some wisdom:

https://youtu.be/qMQJeL302Qs

But wait . . . she is American.

Wow! Talk about honesty. She better watch out MSNBC will do a hit job on her.