Craig Virgin on Caster Semenya

Waaaay too many exclamation marks, but his points are valid. Separate category vs capping testosterone levels is the only way to make it fair and even for all. In our overtly PC world, isn't that the goal anyway?

Great, that crazy poster from Canada is back.

...does a "farm background" have to do with anything? Craig has some good points; however, I can't help but picture him sitting on the porch in his rocking chair, cradling a shotgun in his lap, and staring off into the sunset.

For those worried about men ruining women sports, choosing to fight and die on Hill Caster is a waste of energy and ruins one's credibility. There are very, very few individuals who's sexual identity is naturally ambiguous. The serious issue is the growing number of former Bruce Jenner types competing as women.

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waste of time/diminished credibility wrote:

For those worried about men ruining women sports, choosing to fight and die on Hill Caster is a waste of energy and ruins one's credibility. There are very, very few individuals who's sexual identity is naturally ambiguous. The serious issue is the growing number of former Bruce Jenner types competing as women.

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What the heck... wrote:

...does a "farm background" have to do with anything? Craig has some good points; however, I can't help but picture him sitting on the porch in his rocking chair, cradling a shotgun in his lap, and staring off into the sunset.

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Sex change surgery seems to becoming normal. You could have a bunch of NCAA D2 male to female sex change athletes ruin women swimming and athletics and you want to fight & die on Hill Caster with almost 70 year old Craig Virgin? There are only a few who identify as women with naturally high T-levels.

Abolish gender categories in athletics. It will save public schools billions of dollars annually if schools only field co-ed teams.

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Uncle Rico wrote:

Abolish gender categories in athletics. It will save public schools billions of dollars annually if schools only field co-ed teams.

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Sweeping? wrote:

Sex change surgery seems to becoming normal. You could have a bunch of NCAA D2 male to female sex change athletes ruin women swimming and athletics and you want to fight & die on Hill Caster with almost 70 year old Craig Virgin? There are only a few who identify as women with naturally high T-levels.

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33 but almost 40 wrote:

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Sweeping? wrote:

Sex change surgery seems to becoming normal. You could have a bunch of NCAA D2 male to female sex change athletes ruin women swimming and athletics and you want to fight & die on Hill Caster with almost 70 year old Craig Virgin? There are only a few who identify as women with naturally high T-levels.

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With surgery it becomes less of an issue. T levels will plummet.
Also Craig is only 63. I hope we don't have to round up our ages that much.

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NeverAWMDRF wrote:

Finally a white man who has sense:

Craig Virgin
26 February

I absolutely come down on the side of the IAAF and their Pres. Seb Coe when it comes to the whole Caster Semenya/hyperandrogenism/DSD (difference in sexual development) issue. The IAAF wants to ensure that girls and women can compete on the track, road, and X-C world wide within the sanctity of a "fair and open competition." DSD/hyperandrogenism athletes are born (outside their control) with both sex organs and, accordingly, have a much higher natural testosterone level that better compares to men!

To me, their physical external appearance advantages are apparent! Do they allow men into women's T & F events? Absolutely not! Yet, that's what it looked like in the Women's 800 m. T & F Finals at the last Olympics.... as DSD athletes (led by Semenya) placed 1-2-3 in this Rio Olympics track event! As the IAAF says publicly... " female athletes with very high testosterone levels have an ENORMOUS ADVANTAGE that is comparable to adults competing against children." When the camera panned over each athlete on the starting line before the Olympic 800... it was obvious from their physical appearance that 3 of them were not "normal women"! I do not need a Ph.D. or MD degree to know and understand that! I have a farm background and nearly 50 years of experience in athletics! I know what I can see with my own two eyes!
The advantages that these 3 "women" competitors enjoyed during the 800 m. race that day was obvious for all to see. No surprise that they took 1-2-3 in the race. In my humble opinion, Bishop from Canada (back in 4th place) was the "true female" gold medalist on that day... but the official results will not show that! This is unconscionable yet was allowed to persist ever since, to include various national and world championships.

I do not personally blame these "DSD athletes"...as it is outside their control if they are a genetic anomaly at birth. But they enjoy the same advantages in women's sport.... as any female athlete who has been busted recently for PED usage! it is not fair to the other athletes or to the sport to "bust" the PED cheaters... but "look the other way".... with DSD athletes... even though their super high testosterone levels are the same!

The IAAF is not banning DSD athletes from competition.... it is just requesting that they bring down their "natural" testosterone levels by pharmaceutical means (not necessarily surgically but that also an option!) And, that they sit out athletics competition for a 6 month period of "suppression" while their testosterone levels "normalize".

My biggest biggest criticism of the IAAF is that they are only enforcing this rule in running events from "400 meters to the mile!?!" This new rule should APPLY TO ALL the distances... AND FIELD EVENTS... just like PED restrictions do! We have seen the advantages that testosterone and EPO boosted men and women athletes enjoy at the longer distances. Why should it not apply to "all" events? I don't get it???

Semenya's and the Athletics South African's appeal as well as the IAAF's official position was heard by the Center for Arbitration in Sport (CAS) last week in Lausanne, Switzerland. Arguments concluded last Friday with a deadline for decision on or before this coming March 26th.

CAS, itself, has said that this verdict will be one of the most "pivotal" in its entire history. I agree... and if Semenya prevails... then I call for the IAAF and IOC to then create certain athletic events limited only to "hyperandrogism athletes." That, or make them compete against men! As Seb Coe said, "The core value for the IAAF is the empowerment of girls and women through athletics" and that is only done by keeping the competition "fair."

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don't believe the falling T-myth wrote:

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33 but almost 40 wrote:

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Sweeping? wrote:

Sex change surgery seems to becoming normal. You could have a bunch of NCAA D2 male to female sex change athletes ruin women swimming and athletics and you want to fight & die on Hill Caster with almost 70 year old Craig Virgin? There are only a few who identify as women with naturally high T-levels.

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With surgery it becomes less of an issue. T levels will plummet.
Also Craig is only 63. I hope we don't have to round up our ages that much.

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Walk up to and punch the former athlete previously known as Bruce Jenner in the face. You will get an applied science lesson in athletic ability post gender reassignment surgery.

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Uncle Rico wrote:

Abolish gender categories in athletics. It will save public schools billions of dollars annually if schools only field co-ed teams.

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Sounds like the typical poster here. Lets ban all Russians and black Africans on any pretext we can think of so darling babes Bishop and Buchel can stand on the podium whilst LR posters ogle at them.

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Craig sums up LRers wrote:

Sounds like the typical poster here. Lets ban all Russians and black Africans on any pretext we can think of so darling babes Bishop and Buchel can stand on the podium whilst LR posters ogle at them.

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I find it funny that Virgin equates the issue of DSD/trans athletes with that of PED usage. Look at what that's become in track and field : a breeding ground of corruption, secrecy, and abuse through TUEs and every gray are loop hole you can think of. The idea of just banning these people and "it's as simple as that!" ignores the hard problems of deciding what to actually do about those individuals in sport

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don't believe the falling T-myth wrote:

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33 but almost 40 wrote:

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Sweeping? wrote:

Sex change surgery seems to becoming normal. You could have a bunch of NCAA D2 male to female sex change athletes ruin women swimming and athletics and you want to fight & die on Hill Caster with almost 70 year old Craig Virgin? There are only a few who identify as women with naturally high T-levels.

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With surgery it becomes less of an issue. T levels will plummet.
Also Craig is only 63. I hope we don't have to round up our ages that much.

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Walk up to and punch the former athlete previously known as Bruce Jenner in the face. You will get an applied science lesson in athletic ability post gender reassignment surgery.

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My first thought was that Craig Virgin should probably get off of Caster Semenya. Holding her down like that is no way to keep her from competing.