improving easy run pace

Correction: my 5k PR is 21:50

H.Shafiu wrote:

have been running for 3 years and my 5k time is not improving due to unconsistency in runnning.

(...)

Please help, thanks

Before you even think about paces, you have to get consistent. The pacing often follows automatically.

How many times a week are you running now? If it's anything less than 9, then increase your current number by 1, then 2,... Just run more often. Your body will adapt the pace according to how tired you are and how fit you become.

H.Shafiu wrote:

Correction: my 5k PR is 21:50

I improved from 21 min 5k to 16:50 in a year and my easy run pace didn't change (~8 min/mile).

I'm only faster on my easy runs if I reduce my mileage a lot (traveling, multiple off-days per week). It has zero effect on your 5k time whether you run those easy runs at 7 min per mile or 9 min per mile, unless you are not recovered enough for the key workouts, then it becomes detrimental to run so fast.

You need 2 workouts a week, one being longer intervals around 5-10k pace and one could be a tempo run/threshold intervals in the build-up and then a hard race simulation/vo2max workout closer to the competition.

Hanzo wrote:

It has zero effect on your 5k time whether you run those easy runs at 7 min per mile or 9 min per mile,

So, higher heart rate, harder breathing, changes in stride length, probably faster cadence, and more muscle exertion, have no effect?

Let’s all go for a training walk then!

There’s a difference between easy runs and recovery runs, and he’s suggesting a period during which he really has nothing to recover from or for, and to waste that block of time with recovery paced running is foolish. It should be the time where he tests the waters and tries to bump his easy pace down a little.

Coopersville wrote:

Hanzo wrote:

It has zero effect on your 5k time whether you run those easy runs at 7 min per mile or 9 min per mile,

So, higher heart rate, harder breathing, changes in stride length, probably faster cadence, and more muscle exertion, have no effect?

Let’s all go for a training walk then!

There’s a difference between easy runs and recovery runs, and he’s suggesting a period during which he really has nothing to recover from or for, and to waste that block of time with recovery paced running is foolish. It should be the time where he tests the waters and tries to bump his easy pace down a little.

His 5k PR is 21:50, according to Tinman calculator his easy run pace should be 10:00/mile. He wants to have a base period of only running easy and improving this easy period.

This is NOT good. His body would just adapt to that - to run a 9:45/mile or 9:30/mile pace without much effort. As soon as he goes faster, like 5k or 10k pace he wouldn't be able to sustain it.

Even in his base period, he should have workouts and faster runs, like 4x1k or an 5-8k tempo run. Easy and recovery running, NO matter which pace, will NEVER have the high level of heart rate, breathing, stride length and muscle exertion that is required to improve at speeds that matter for him in races.

Hanzo wrote:

His 5k PR is 21:50, according to Tinman calculator his easy run pace should be 10:00/mile. He wants to have a base period of only running easy and improving this easy period.

This is NOT good. His body would just adapt to that - to run a 9:45/mile or 9:30/mile pace without much effort. As soon as he goes faster, like 5k or 10k pace he wouldn't be able to sustain it.

Even in his base period, he should have workouts and faster runs, like 4x1k or an 5-8k tempo run. Easy and recovery running, NO matter which pace, will NEVER have the high level of heart rate, breathing, stride length and muscle exertion that is required to improve at speeds that matter for him in races.

Two posts ago you said you went from 21:00 to 16:50 running 8:00/mile easy pace. Why didn’t you run 10:00 as Tinman suggested? Honestly think you would you have improved to 16:50?

I had no idea about proper training when I started running. Also, back then I ran 3 days a week, so I was better regenerated going in the easy runs. Even when I ran mid 17s sometimes I ran 9-10 minute/mile pace on easy runs, because I was heavily fatigued from races.

My improvement came from workouts and consistent, EASY mileage. I had no moderate runs or faster easy runs at all, and was the slowest on easy run days in the training group. I also improved far more than anyone else.

If you were inconsistent before (3 days per week), of course running the same pace and increasing consistency and mileage at the same pace will work.

At some point though, when you stop increasing mileage, stop adding new workouts, and have consistency, an increase in easy pace is the logical next training adaptation.

He wants to do that now by building a base before adding in new workouts. It’s a great idea.

So many people preach “run by feel” until someone feels great and feels like running faster, then it’s too fast. If he sets aside 20 weeks where he truly runs by feel, going slow when needed, doing progressions when he feels great, even hammering some days, and slowly increases his days per week and mileage, he’ll be a much better runner than he is right now.

It’s not complicated. Get out the door for those 20 weeks, bump the days per week up, bump the miles up, and truly run by feel.

Sup below 8:00 miles and maybe you’ll run 16:15 instead of 16:50. I went from 17:3x to 14:5x when I went to college and had to bust my ass on easy days just to keep up.

Hanzo wrote:

Coopersville wrote:

[quote]Hanzo wrote:

It has zero effect on your 5k time whether you run those easy runs at 7 min per mile or 9 min per mile,

So, higher heart rate, harder breathing, changes in stride length, probably faster cadence, and more muscle exertion, have no effect?

Let’s all go for a training walk then!

There’s a difference between easy runs and recovery runs, and he’s suggesting a period during which he really has nothing to recover from or for, and to waste that block of time with recovery paced running is foolish. It should be the time where he tests the waters and tries to bump his easy pace down a little.

His 5k PR is 21:50, according to Tinman calculator his easy run pace should be 10:00/mile. He wants to have a base period of only running easy and improving this easy period.

This is NOT good. His body would just adapt to that - to run a 9:45/mile or 9:30/mile pace without much effort. As soon as he goes faster, like 5k or 10k pace he wouldn't be able to sustain it.

Tell that to any pro runner, Henry Wynne, a 3:56 miler; runs a vast majority of his runs at 7:30 pace. And Kyle Merber before and during race season would go anywhere from 7:30 to 8:30, and he can run 3:52. GO A PACE THAT IS COMFTORSBLE FOR ALL THOSE RUNS. A LONG BASE PERIOD OF EASY RUNNING WILL NOT ONLY IMPROVE YOUR AEROBIC BASE BUT WILL HELP YOU BECOME MORE INJURY IMMUNE. I know multpile people who went the whole summer running all runs EASY, with strides of course. Then, during speed training, they still had lingering from the previous season. 15+ kids I know of took the whole summer easy, and ran under 14 in the 5K

IT WORKS

Look at improving threshold pace, not easy run pace. Do 5 miles a bit slower than 5k pace once or twice a week. Also, do a set of 8-12 strides 4-5 times a week. That's 6-10 80-100 meters at mile pace, jog back, do it again.

OP, the posts you've seen so far on this thread are a cluster with a few people arguing over semantics when they essentially agree on the main point and answer to your question:

- Your easy pace does not matter

They agree on this and you'll find most of the posters on this forum will agree as well. Your easy pace is your easy pace. It's personal and it does not affect your racing ability. Some people's easy pace is faster than you might expect given their racing and some people fall on the other side of that.

If you are planning on doing a sustained "base period" where you only run easy you will find people here who agree with that idea and those who do not. They will all agree though that your easy pace doesn't matter and that your consistency in however you train will have a bigger effect than anything else. This means that whatever you do, do it day in and day out for a long time and you will get better, whatever that means for you. Getting out and running every day is a good start if you're not already doing that. Workouts are up to you or whoever you've decided to put your faith in training theory-wise.

Good luck

Sorry, in regards to your other question; What will be your 5K improvement?

This too is extremely personal and depends on your innate physical ability. Your racing ceiling is yours alone. The same training may take different people to different places. You shouldn't look at times relative to other people necessarily. At your/my level (not professional) running is about finding your own limits. If you're worried about how your times compare to the world at large you will always be disappointed.

Get out there, don't worry about your easy pace, be consistent and find out what you can do.

Lasse Viren jogged his easy days at 8 minute pace or slower.

Wolf's Bane wrote:

Look at improving threshold pace, not easy run pace. Do 5 miles a bit slower than 5k pace once or twice a week. Also, do a set of 8-12 strides 4-5 times a week. That's 6-10 80-100 meters at mile pace, jog back, do it again.

Ha ha, what? Run 5 miles at slightly slower than his 3.1 mile pace? Once or twice a week? So basically do a 5 mile race a couple times a week?

Sounds like a winning game plan with zero chance of injury or burnout.

I think you need to focus more on high tempo runs, mixed with endurance. I've also found following a training plan, rather than casual running can really help me boost my PR. If you want to get under 20mins, this training plan looks decent:

https://d178fu9mi2dmkb.cloudfront.net/resources/LDT_5k_TrainingPlan.pdf

If you need to stay motivated, try booking yourself into a race. I've used these guys before, they have loads of different race organizers all in one website:

https://www.letsdothis.com/us/running-events/5k

I'd also say that 20 weeks is too long to try and improve your PR, with hard work, you should start to see a difference more quickly

Reindeer milk wrote:

Lasse Viren jogged his easy days at 8 minute pace or slower.

yeah, but imagine how much better he'd've been if he ran them 2+ min/mi faster!

browski wrote:

Reindeer milk wrote:

Lasse Viren jogged his easy days at 8 minute pace or slower.

yeah, but imagine how much better he'd've been if he ran them 2+ min/mi faster!

His competition usually did their easy runs at that pace(see Prefontaine training). See the results in the 72 and 76 Olympic 5000m and 10000m finals.

Sorry, I was being facetious.

H.Shafiu wrote:

have been running for 3 years and my 5k time is not improving due to unconsistency in runnning. My easy run pace is about 9:45-9:15/mile. I want to leave workouts and faster running in order to start a base building period. What would be my easy pace after 20 weeks of easy running with one tempo session every week? my 5k PR is 21:00 and how much improvement will come to my 5k time after this period of easy running?

2 questions:

1. my easy running pace after the base building

2. my 5k time improvement.

Please help, thanks

I don't let my athletes run slower than 9:00 / mile, even my slower freshman girls with times much slower than yours. I think you aren't practicing good running habits and developing proper muscles going that slow, and are spending so much time going up and down and not forward. You might be strengthening your aerobic system (well yes, you undoubtedly are), but in my estimation, you would gain more benefit by running less and faster at that point, until you can build the strength to run 45 - 60 minute runs @ sub 9 minute pace.

I might have a different opinion if your 5k was 15:30 and you did a ton of faster tempo workouts. But it's not and you don't.