tempo runs/increased mileage

Beats me!!

I would guess your legs are dealing with the continued density of the mileage. Your tempo runs probably won't get noticeably faster so quickly. However, the 5:52 pace should become easier as you adapt to the mileage and then the pace will come down with the same effort. Give it some time.

I've experienced the same thing with tempos and high mileage. My tempo's were marathon paced runs of anywhere from 10 to 13 miles. I thought these would get easier as I held the mileage. After four months of 95-105 they did not get easier (as measured by perceived effort and HRM). Note that I did not start tempo's until after about three months of all easy running. I was not doing any interval work at the time.

Well, the tempo's did not get easier, but the race efforts felt better and PR's dropped. I took 1 minute off of a 5K PR. My marathon was a disaster though.

Now, I am back to 70 miles per week and doing interval work (long intervals, 6x1 mile at 5K+5 seconds pace) for a while to see if that helps a bit. I plan on ramping back up to 100's in August for a winter marathon.

Glycogen depletion!

Tinman,

Could you clarify what you mean by glycogen depletion?

Thanks.

Glycogen depletion is when the energy that your muscles use is diminished. You can get this from running too much or intensely.

Anyhow, I can only speak from my experience and training, but something that might work is try doing a longish up-tempo run at about 15-20 seconds per mile slower (say maybe 7-8 miles) On another day do your 4-5 miler at a quicker tempo. Make sure to have enough time between these runs to recover. I usually do mine on tuesday and friday. If I race, then I just run easy on friday.

If you do this for a while along with hard strides varying in length from 100-300 meters it should really help out with aerobic strength and when you transition to harder interval training you will be able to handle it pretty well.

I also had/have similar experiences in racing as sundog. I dropped a ton of time in all race distances and the races felt much better. I too changed my training when racing more (ie intervals and reps added ). I kind of alternate weeks of longish tempo coupled with reps (faster repeats of say 200,300,400,600 repeats with a lot of recover) and then shorter tempo with intervals (stuff at 3k,5k,10k pace with less recovery).

I know a lot of people stop doing tempo runs or harder paced runs as they get closer to competitions, but I still incorporate these runs into training and have had better success and better prolonged results with this type of training.

Just note that with the increase in mileage and amount of tempo running it does take a while to really see the benefits. After you get to a certain point you aren't going to drop 2 minutes each year for your 5k/10k.

Good luck with things.

What are some more symptoms of gloycogen depletion?

Have you tried to run faster than 5:52 pace in order to run faster than 5:52 pace? In theory, as your VO2Max improves, you should be running faster. It didn't work with me. It didn't work with Bill Baillie either (as he told me). I had to introduce other workouts to run faster in order to run faster.

Thanks for the responses, everyone. Yes, I do at times run faster than 5:52 pace, probably on the hill sprints that I've been doing from time to time (about once every other week or so). The hill that I run starts out relatively flat at the base but then gets much steeper, and for that 100 m or so I am going about as fast as I do my strides before the tempo runs. I guess I thought that this would be enough of a stimulus to make my legs turn over faster.

neofight ask:

"Now, I was thinking that as I did higher mileage, and consistently did these tempo runs, that they would get faster, but they haven't."

Suggestions:

Don't "plan" the tempo runs. Do your runs "as you feel" and let the tempo come to you.

Naturally you are still "adapting" but you seem to be forcing the issue. Just do the strides every other day and vary the terrain/incline.

It takes alot of practice before you can "double the clutch" and find new gears. Be patient, consistent, enjoy your running you will get "there".

My problem was that I ran my tempo run as the last day of my 6-day cycle of running. This, coupled with the fact that I ran too hard on my easy days, left my legs cashed for my tempo run.

I don't think it means that you aren't improving--usually it takes me awhile to really get the hang of a tempo run and be able to cruise it. It just means your legs are tired. You should try maintaining 100mpw until it feels "normal" before putting in your tempo. Either that, or run your easy days REALLY easy, such as 8-10min pace, so you are only working those other muscles on your tempo day, thus leaving them more fresh.

Then again, I don't think I know as much as I think I do. Tinman could probably give you better advice with two words than I did in my entire paragraph =).

Yeah, check out Hodgie-San's website for some on-line info. If you want to see how mileage and pace change over the years and through the seasons it is pretty cool and might give you an idea of what happens.

www.bunnhill.com

, then our websites, then bob hodge

Anyhow, I have read those quite a bit Bob, so thanks for posting them.

Mike

Much respect to you, Hodgie-san. I have been just running the past few days, and have forgotten how much I love it, and how distracted I am from that when planning workouts and anticipating races all the time.

Thanks to everyone for valuable input.