Great Academics, Fair Runner but super passionate - Who Would you suggest your kid run for in college?

You’re right about the cold weather factor. Stay where it’s warm and people are happy. If you’re looking outside of schools like Occidental, Loyola Marymount, & Pomona in CA, then consider schools like CofC, Tulane, Rice, William & Mary, Wake Forest, UNC-Wilmington, or Coastal Carolina. If she does well on the ACT, it may very well be cheaper for her to attend an out-of-state school, particularly at an SEC school, on a lucrative academic scholarship. If she’s on academic aid, the coaches will be more interested bc/it may only cost the program a partial or books scholarship to get a top-notch student who may contribute athletically by the end of 4 yrs. Some of these large state schools have amazing Honors Colleges, so don’t count out the rigor & research opportunities available at the “public” Ivies. At 18:30, there are plenty of options and I don’t think settling for club/intramural is the way to go.

Way back in what seems like another era (there wasn't even a patriot league then) I ended up at a current patriot league school through running and some good luck. Looking back I probably owe 99% of my career and life success to the education, values and opportunities I acquired there. This puts me squarely in the camp that it really does make a difference where one goes to college. If parents and student choose a state school over the best academic opportunity to save $200 to $250k, there should be a lot of thought put into how you will get the same outcome after 4 years. If financial aid makes both options cost about the same, then it's pretty clear to go for the best choice.

Over the past few years I have helped some very bright low income kids with college apps. Your daughter will qualify as a single parent child. Income under $60k per year guarantees basically a full ride just based on need to most of the top schools mentioned here. Under $100k per year can even work at some of the schools, and will for sure at least get 2/3 aid. When you file the aid forms, there is a special form for "no contact with parent", where you need to describe the whereabouts - can be unknown, and the situation as to why they are not in the child's life. This needs to be signed off by 2 people who know the child, and notarized.

While there will be no (or highly doubtful) scholarship money, the commitment to run and input to the admissions department, can really help the student get in to the college. You need to contact the coach and tell them that you are applying, as well as include the commitment to running in the application materials. As you probably know from your football, there might not be a scholarship, but the GPA and test scores needed to get into the school can be much lower for athletes.

You already have a lot of good info here on schools - I would have you look at the top D3 schools. The NESCAC schools in New England, Hopkins, Haverford, Dickinson Midwest Wash U, Grinell, Carleton, Mcalaster - West Pomona, Claremont, Scripps, Occidental, Reed. In D3 for an 18 minute lady, one is part of the school team, has a structure that is clear to understand ie. league meet, regionals, D3 nationals and of course the opportunity to train seriously and improve, but without the pressure of being the "worst one on the team" that can come at a D1 program. At most of the D3 schools, all the walk ons are on the team.

A great place to learn about how this whole financial aid process works is Questbridge.org which helps to match up low income kids with the financial aid available at top schools. 99% of the best schools (including Rice) are in this program and the information available there can really help to understand how the whole process works.

Good luck! Will be interesting to see the SAT/ACT scores, as without grades and scores these schools can be too much of a reach.

I've seen a lot of great recommendations so far. If she likes Colorado, I would recommend Colorado College; very good academics, a D3 program where she'd be a top runner, and an overall intelligent, athletic community. Further away from CA, U Chicago, Case, WashU, Emory, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Welseyan, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, Tufts, etc.

Good ideas so far wrote:

I've seen a lot of great recommendations so far. If she likes Colorado, I would recommend Colorado College; very good academics, a D3 program where she'd be a top runner, and an overall intelligent, athletic community. Further away from CA, U Chicago, Case, WashU, Emory, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Welseyan, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Williams, Amherst, Tufts, etc.

I hesitated to mention Colorado College because, as of several years ago, the median parental income for students was $277,500 -- the highest of all colleges reported in a very extensive survey published in the New York Times. My concern was that, when students at a relatively small liberal arts school are overwhelmingly from high-income families, it can reflect not only a high sticker price, but also poor financial options for prospective students from somewhat lower-income families. I don't know whether that's true of Colorado College, which is otherwise an attractive option with innovative instructional methods in a beautiful setting.

Yes, it did get off track. I appreciate all the serious suggestions, and would appreciate the person who is flipping out over wage gaps to take it to some other place please. The one line you quoted me on you took out of context anyhow. I was referring it does not pay to be a white male as far as the stats (that someone else notified me of FYI), concerning ACT scores and how much more difficult it will be for my girlfriends daughter because she is white. I was not referring to any wage issues at all. You must be a big fan of Jordan Peterson. Warren Farrell, and Christina Hoff Sommers. If you are so interested in the wage gap topic, I suggest you read their books if you want to consider both sides of the issue.

I hope this person does not run off everyone else who has been providing me a lot of good content to digest and discuss with my girlfriends daughter.

Will next XC season be too late to get a better time that could impact recruiting? Remember her school has zero off season training... So in the off season and summers she just jogs on her own or with friends on her team who are total slackers and much slower than her. This summer I am likely going to pay a top notch coach at a neighboring school to coach her all summer, in hopes next XC season she reduces the 18:30. I am frustrated at the track times and potential to improve, seeing they do not have a track and their track training is the exact same as the XC training....kids just leave the school and go jogging on the streets by themselves.

Thanks CollegeChoice. I have not considered Occidental. LMU she thinks is too close, its literally a stone's throw and I actually just finished up another grad degree there. I am a fan of encouraging her to move a bit away from home to be on her own and grow up some. I had no idea Pomona was a legit school, but you are not the first to mention it in this thread. I requested info from Tulane, William and Mary, and Wake Forest. Someone else suggested Rice so I just added that to the list, but will add UNC-Wilmington and Coastal Carolina. Crossing my fingers on the ACT. I have no idea how she will do, especially since she never did the practice test, and has not done a prep course. I appreciate the encouragement even with the 18:30 that she can still find a home to run in college.

Thanks former Patriot. A lot of great feedback and much appreciated. No, she likely would not do well as the "worst on the team"... She has been a big fish in a small pond at these athletically horrific Catholic schools.

All the articles and stats aside, having a service academy and Patriot League school on my resume has always gotten me a quick foot in the door for jobs and for grad school ( I have 3 masters). And yes, football totally got me into multiple Ivies, an appointment to every single service academy (Air Force, West Point, Annapolis, and Coast Guard Academy), and multiple Patriot League schools. Grades alone I would have been lucky to get accepted to even one of them... A lot of teammates of mine from the service academy and Patriot League school (as well as kids I coached at an Ivy and Patriot League), were "2.0 and go" meatheads that after graduating entered great career fields and have made a good living for themselves. I assume part of that is the brand name school, plus the competitive spirit and lessons learned through being a college athlete. I do believe brand name schools can help, but also that say she went to Ohio State or Univ of Georgia (since they are mentioned in this thread), that she would still be driven to work for a 4.0 GPA, learn a lot, and go on to do good things.

I am going to dig into the Questbridge.org.

Wow, I am somewhat familiar with CC, had no idea it was that great of a school at all, nor that the kids were from such wealthy familes!!!

Notre Dame sounds like a fit for her.

Based on her 800m and 1600m times she is not fast enough for a D1 program.

Prepare for the ACT and SAT exams and do well on those. Then go to the best school that you can that offers the program that you are most interested in. Almost every school has a "Club" team that she can be a part of.

This is a typical American attitude. Get whatever you can regardless of cost. If you read the study posted above, it does not matter where top students go to school so they should choose the best value school.

She would love Notre Dame - but is not fast enough. Her entire life has been in Catholic schools and she would feel comfort in continuing that kind of environment. Based on how competitive it is to get in there, unless she was a recruited athlete it seems like it would be difficult. And I wonder if there is much financial aid, seeing a lot of kids that want to go there probably have families who can afford it and the school certainly would want the cash no? Whether its true or not I have had people tell me they got into good Catholic schools because their parents were paying the full tab and that helped get them in?

Many of the schools you all have mentioned I have on a list I typed up two years ago, encouraging her all along to surf their websites and such, plus check the XC and track team times to see where she would be competitive. Well, she did choose Duke and Notre Dame and told me that is where she wants to go etc, and I looked up the times and told her unfortunately she isn't even close to fast enough. Trying to explain to her to be recruited she needs to be competitive perhaps with at least the times freshman girls have on whatever team, that might make her appealing to the coach that she has potential to contribute. Hence trying to get her to look at D3 schools too.

As far as going to the school that is the best value financially...I am sure that is what she and her family (including me) would advise regardless if it was a brand name academic school or a big state school. I do believe she would be successful at either. I am taking everyone's input here, requesting info from schools, and going to encourage her to look at these schools and see which ones seem appealing. Once we have ACT score that will help us narrow it down more what is realistic, as will her track times this season. Then I plan on helping her write an email to send out to teams she might think she can run for, and try to get the ball rolling.

One of her teammates dads hired two different people that cost thousands, one fills out all the financial aid forms for you for each college, and advises you which ones you might get a good deal at, and the other I forget what they do exactly maybe just help with the selection of colleges. However, I am not money bags and cannot afford to hire people like that.

If applications are like the old days costing $50 or probably more now, it will be a process selecting what schools to apply to realistically just based on that money too. Another factor I was totally unaware of as a kid and spoiled playing football in that these kinds of things are all waived. I did not pay a dime to apply to anywhere, and even was getting acceptance letters from schools without even applying just because I was being recruited.

You are correct about ND. My son ran 4:13 junior year and scored 35 on the ACT. The previous coach responded to him once and then went cold and my son was not accepted. He is a white male and we are upper middle class with no family members who attended previously.

If she likes Catholic education she should check out the WCC schools—Santa Clara, Gonzaga, etc., are Jesuit schools with good not great running programs. Some programs will be out of reach unless she improves but I think Santa Clara is taking girls with times like hers.

She has seen Santa Clara, and I did put Gonzaga on the list as well as some Portland Catholic school I was unaware of previously.... but do Catholic schools help much with financial aid, grants, scholarships between academics and mom's finances? Considering that if those are D1 schools she still would not be like the star recruit unless something happens this year that she has major improvements (which with their team and workouts I doubt it).

It’s going to vary a lot between merit, need based, and athletic money at those schools. Portland is pretty good so that’s the least likely possibility probably.

Hi! Current senior girl in high school here. I have similar times to your girlfriend's daughter (18:27 for 3 miles, 5:25 for 1600, and 2:19 for 800). I also have very similar academics (4.45 GPA, 2nd in class of 750, 35 ACT, etc.) Going through the recruitment process, I was interested in top-notch academic schools where I'd be able to run. WashU, UChicago, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Amherst, Wesleyan, Williams, and Bowdoin have all been mentioned so far and were on my radar; I found these coaches to be very receptive to my emails and their programs looked great. I would also like to recommend Carnegie Mellon, Haverford, and Carleton College—Carleton and Haverford appear to have especially amazing coaches who really care about their athletes.

The most important thing for you to consider is if the schools are matches for her—not just in running. Ask her what size she wants, talk to her about the type of environment she's looking for, and look for the schools with the best programs for what she wants to study. As I finalized my list of schools, running became less of a priority for me because I realized that I'd be able to run competitively wherever I go to school—running clubs are competitive and an option for all types of runners. I ended up applying to only 3 schools where I'd be able to run on the varsity team (Emory, UChicago, and WashU). I, ultimately, decided I wanted a bigger school and a more flexible schedule with regards to running, so I focused more on the Ivy League, Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc. and, if accepted, I plan to run on the club team for one of those schools.

What is your expected cost at the ivies?

Thanks current senior, your feedback is very valuable and much appreciated!!! Did you make a decision yet??